Please comment on this steam valve - proportions and looks?

[wm3798]

There's a solution to every problem. 



I say just hire this guy to be your fireman, and the need for the large valve becomes readily apparent.

[mmagliaro]

The Z scale brake wheel is a good idea, but an 18" brake wheel in Z = about a 13" diameter in N Scale,
and the thing I have on there is already only 12", so I don't think the Z brake wheel will cut it.

I have put on an 0.55mm etched stainless washer.    That's 3.5" in N Scale, so it's a good size.  It may be just a plain
circle, but honestly, once this is painted black (or maybe red), I really don't think it's going to matter.  Better to not call attention to itself by being huge.

Chris, those HO valve handles are very nearly blobs and that's in HO! 

[Chris333]

I think your valve look fine just the handle wheel is big. Maybe just a thin slice of styrene rod?

[wazzou]

Yeah, the truth is, from a normal operating distance, a slice of .025 Styrene Rod will look just right if you paint the outer circumference red and the center black with a red dot.

It sounds like you and I suffer from the same thing, not seeing the forest for the trees.
I can't count how many times I have stalemated myself on minutiae detail when struggling to realize I'd have to point it out to all but a few.

[mmagliaro]

Mostly I got bogged down on this because every time I have to model a small hand valve like this, I end up back at the same place: a tiny disk with a dot of paint on it.  I figured I'd try to find some way to really make it a "hand wheel" in N Scale, but I don't think it is possible.   When I do backheads, I have the same issue.  All those little handwheels are far too small to show any spokes, so I use tiny washers.

The washer is on.  I'll post a pic later when I can.   An 0.55mm washer is .021" in diameter (3.5" in N Scale).  Yes, I could use some .020" round styrene rod, but the little washer is a bit easier and has the hole in the middle so the glue can grab onto the end of the stem more easily.

[up1950s]

So instead of a brass washer .

.020 plastic rod .
Then drill a hole in the end .
Then score the outside longways with a saw blade so there will be finger lands and groves .
Then slice off a piece .
Then glue that on .

[mmagliaro]

So instead of a brass washer .

.020 plastic rod .
Then drill a hole in the end .
Then score the outside longways with a saw blade so there will be finger lands and groves .
Then slice off a piece .
Then glue that on .

Hey now... this is thinking outside the rod!   Just a swipe or two with an escapement file (they have super thin edges)
to put 4 or so grooves in there - it would be easier to handle than a saw blade.  But I do like your idea!

[Maletrain]

The OP intro talked about the large variety of piping arrangements.  Soooo, who is to say that there isn't also a wide variety of handles on those valves - it is certainly easier to change the valve handles than the pipes (in the 1:1 world, anyway).

So, I think the best goal is to make something that does not look out of place as a handle for the size of the valve, and assume that somebody sometime used one like that.  Solid (non-spoked) valve handles are not that unusual, but extra-large valve handles are.  So, making nubs on the outer rim of a flat disk should not look unrealistic so long as they are on a disk that does not look unusually large.  The idea of scoring the surface of a plastic rod to make ridges and then cutting off a thin slice to make those ridges into nubs on the rim seems like a good approach.

Another aspect is to consider the scale of the handle in the context of the scale of the pipe it is on.  If the pipe or valve body must be somewhat oversized, then it will make a slightly oversized valve handle look reasonable, too.  Not much oversized, or the whole thing will look like a toy, but a lot of N scale details are as much as 50% oversized (e.g., grab iron thickness with 0.007" wire, which scales to 1-1/8" when a lot of old grabs are only 3/4").

[Lemosteam]

Personally I like the watch gear idea. file off the gear teeth.

[mmagliaro]

Okay, so I tried the idea of scoring lines along a .020" rod.  I'm afraid it's not really feasible.
Making them with a saw blade or file, no matter how thin, either distorts the outer rim of the "wheel" so much that it doesn't even look like a round thing with nubs anymore, or (trying it with an Xacto blade to make the scoring very very thin) it's so small that you may as well not bother.

What kind of watch gears are there that are only .025" or so in diameter?  Is there really a watch gear that small?

So, I went back to the washer idea.  I ended up remaking the whole pipe/elbow/valve body again because with the tiny handle, everything else has to be much neater and to scale.  A piece of .012" wire (a 2" pipe) is the elbow, with a bit of insulation slid onto it to form the valve "body", then a .008" stem for the valve handle, and the washer all on that.
All of delicately held together with some 2-part epoxy so it has a chance of holding up and has some flexibility (ACC would just snap off the next time I breathe on it).

Photos later...

[DMetz]

Could the valve handles be etched or carved on printed circuit board?  Then slice the copper trace off of the back.  You may be able to solder the trace before slicing it to add some thickness. 

[narrowminded]

I'd be willing to give a go at machining one.  Just for fun I just drilled a piece of .038" wire in the end and it will work in my mill. Brass and about half the size you had in your first picture.  Figure .036"/ .038" diameter with four .010" holes and a .010" diameter stem x about 1/16" long that you could trim to length with your nippers. 

I might be able to go smaller but would have to get some smaller drills.  That's already pretty tiny!

If you want to give it a try just say the word.  I'd be honored to do it.

[dnhouston]

Max,

They do not provide actual dimensions, but here is an ebay seller providing all the parts for a mechanical watch movement for just a few bucks.  Some of the parts look very promising.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Parts-for-movement-eta-2824-2-automatic-watch-swiss-made-2-/400301053679

[up1950s]

1 mm glitter will give your dome bling .

https://www.ebay.com/itm/White-Iced-Dots-1mm-Glitter-Mix-Iridescent-Nail-Art-Design-Festival-Face/272942642082?hash=item3f8ca633a2:m:mc_3V3xktvQb-e7jVfmY7Cg

Can you hole a glit ?

[mmagliaro]

I really do appreciate all the effort you guys are putting into this.  Honestly.

Anything around .038"-.039" (1mm) is still oversized enough that I don't think it's worth all the work to try to get the detail
on there.  If we're going to do this, it may as well be .020" or so, or else, I will just stick with a plain washer.
It looks like a plain disk on the end of the stem, which isn't great, but at this size, I really have come to the conclusion that I am grossly overthinking this.  Having experimented with it for a while now, it's clear to me that proportions are far more important on this part than the actual appearance.  If the handle is tiny with a dot of bronze or faded red color, I think it will look good as long as it's not too big

The"bigness" is everything.

Those watch parts do look good, but the ones that look like a handle of any kind are way too big.