Author Topic: Please comment on this steam valve - proportions and looks?  (Read 2886 times)

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mmagliaro

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Please comment on this steam valve - proportions and looks?
« on: February 02, 2018, 01:36:40 PM »
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There is a little hand valve on the side of the steam dome on the SP&S 0-6-0 I am working on.

I have modeled it according to what I think is a compromise between wanting to show some detail on the valve handle and the reality that in N Scale, a pipe valve handle only 4" across would be .025" in diameter and there's no way I can make anything other than a tiny disk or "blob".  So I found the smallest etched brass freight car brake wheel I could find, and trimmed away the outer ring of it to make it as small as possible while still preserving some spokes and the look of a valve handle.

I'd like some opinions of whether it looks bad being oversized, or whether in the grand scheme of looking at the whole engine, it looks okay.  Personally, I like being able to see the detail and I can live with it being too big.   But I would like opinions and also suggestions if you have a better way to model that little handle and still show some "spoke" detail.


Below are some prototype photos of the real thing, a photo of a brass HO model, and finally, how it looks on my N Scale 0-6-0.  Note: the configuration of the pipe on this valve varies wildly from prototype to prototype, and even varies on the same engine in different years, so I'm not terribly concerned with modeling the bends in the pipe exactly as you see them in any one particular prototype shot.  At first, I modeled the most complicated form shown below in the first protoype photo.  But then I decided to simplify it because that allows me to make the part as small as possible.

Prototype 1 (this is the one where the pipe has all the crazy bends in it)


Prototype 2 (a much simpler version)


HO Brass model (note, the valve handle is horizontal, unlike prototype photo 2, but I like it best this way)



Here's the part on my model.



It's this view that really convinced me I'd like to make the handle look like a handle I can actually see, rather than
just a tiny washer disk or blob.


wazzou

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Re: Please comment on this steam valve - proportions and looks?
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2018, 01:49:04 PM »
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IMO the compromise makes it look a little large Max.
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Chris333

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Re: Please comment on this steam valve - proportions and looks?
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2018, 02:14:37 PM »
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Does look a little big.  How about taking one of those pipe hangers you had made and adding spokes to it.  Ha ha just kidding. In HO scale I use O scale brake line parts. but I know you want to make it yourself.

mmagliaro

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Re: Please comment on this steam valve - proportions and looks?
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2018, 02:26:31 PM »
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Does look a little big.  How about taking one of those pipe hangers you had made and adding spokes to it.  Ha ha just kidding. In HO scale I use O scale brake line parts. but I know you want to make it yourself.

Well, since I used an etched brass handle, I'm not married to the idea of making THIS part myself.

Precision Scale sells a lot of these types of "globe" valves for HO.  That would leave me at 2x oversize.
Figure that even allowing for a generous 4" diameter handle (when in fact, it's probably more like 2-1/2), if I use an HO casting, I'll be at 8".   Meh..  Still kinda big.   The thing that I have on there, however, is more like 12".  (A brake wheel is normally about 18", and I cut this one down).

Keep the ideas comin' folks.  This is such a relatively simple part, but it sits up there in plain view, so I don't want it to
look ridiculous.

peteski

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Re: Please comment on this steam valve - proportions and looks?
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2018, 02:32:29 PM »
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Max, I know that you want to maximize the fidelity of the details but let's be realistic. What is the diameter of the 1:1 handle?  3-4 inches?  4" is 0.025"!  Having one that size handle with see-through spokes is crazy (even by my standards)!  :)
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Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: Please comment on this steam valve - proportions and looks?
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2018, 02:33:06 PM »
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Definitely too big.

Have you ever worked with graphene??  :D

http://www.graphene.manchester.ac.uk/explore/what-can-graphene-do/

mmagliaro

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Re: Please comment on this steam valve - proportions and looks?
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2018, 02:47:31 PM »
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Graphene looks super cool, but how would I actually work with a piece of it to make a part? 

Peteski:
Your comment is exactly the truth.  A proper handle should be .025" in diameter, and trying to see spoke detail in that is
hopeless, hence my attempt to "cheat" and use an oversized handle.  But I think I'm hearing what I deep down suspected (which is why I asked you all) ... that it's just too big to get away with.

I have tiny etched metal washers that small, and my inclination is to just epoxy one of those on the tip of the wire and be done with it.

up1950s

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Re: Please comment on this steam valve - proportions and looks?
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2018, 02:55:09 PM »
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Ok , I too think it is too big .

Maybe a Z scale brake wheel

Maybe a slice of cross section of a gear head nylon or plastic spline will give you the bumpy outer edge and the mind will forgive the rest .

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Re: Please comment on this steam valve - proportions and looks?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2018, 02:55:22 PM »
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Graphene looks super cool, but how would I actually work with a piece of it to make a part? 

I don't know. YOU'RE the genius here! lol

peteski

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Re: Please comment on this steam valve - proportions and looks?
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2018, 02:56:02 PM »
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Quote
I have tiny etched metal washers that small, and my inclination is to just epoxy one of those on the tip of the wire and be done with

That sounds like a good solution.
Otherwise you are heading into the realm of Willard Wigan.

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metalworkertom

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Re: Please comment on this steam valve - proportions and looks?
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2018, 03:03:12 PM »
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Well, since I used an etched brass handle, I'm not married to the idea of making THIS part myself.

Precision Scale sells a lot of these types of "globe" valves for HO.  That would leave me at 2x oversize.
Figure that even allowing for a generous 4" diameter handle (when in fact, it's probably more like 2-1/2), if I use an HO casting, I'll be at 8".   Meh..  Still kinda big.   The thing that I have on there, however, is more like 12".  (A brake wheel is normally about 18", and I cut this one down).

Keep the ideas comin' folks.  This is such a relatively simple part, but it sits up there in plain view, so I don't want it to
look ridiculous.
The HO one if it has the detail. May be enough of a size difference  to look plausible. 1/3 smaller right.

up1950s

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Re: Please comment on this steam valve - proportions and looks?
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2018, 03:11:12 PM »
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Tiny a$$ watch gear may work .

Chris333

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Re: Please comment on this steam valve - proportions and looks?
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2018, 03:16:01 PM »
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These are HO valves sitting on a N scale ruler.

3 open spokes.

metalworkertom

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Re: Please comment on this steam valve - proportions and looks?
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2018, 03:29:00 PM »
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I have some TINY watch parts at home. I can check later. But what about Z scale brake wheels? http://www.micronart.com/91406.html

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Re: Please comment on this steam valve - proportions and looks?
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2018, 03:46:03 PM »
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Yeah, way too big.

I don’t know if knocking some flat spots around the edge of the washer is an option or not, but it might help suggest a handle instead of a perfect circle. I wonder if going to the orientation of proto photo number 2 night help. From a low viewing angle, all you’d see is the edge of the valve handle, so see-through becomes a non-issue.
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