Author Topic: Brass GHB L1 tender circuit- need help understanding it  (Read 1052 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Lemosteam

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4041
  • Gender: Male
  • PRR, The Standard Railroad of my World
  • Respect: +1258
    • Designer at Keystone Details
Brass GHB L1 tender circuit- need help understanding it
« on: January 20, 2018, 12:40:26 PM »
0
I am making the necessary repairs on the subject close out version of the GHB L1 and also installing an Econami and a speaker.

Opening the tender I found this device. It was wrapped in electrical tape. I think it may be some kind of factory keep alive, but I am not sure. I think it is also the contacts for the tender and headlight LED.

The two pin connector allows the tender floor to separate fome the wiring.

Can someone help me interpret:

1) what this is device?
2) can I reuse it?
3) which wires would go where into the Econami keep alive connector pins?
4) what component are on it?
5) what are the red stripe on clear cylindrical components?

I can take more pics later too.













nstars

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 434
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +31
Re: Brass GHB L1 tender circuit- need help understanding it
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2018, 01:09:25 PM »
+1
John,

It looks like one of those European noise suppressing modules. We removed it completely.

Marc

woodone

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 429
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +14
Re: Brass GHB L1 tender circuit- need help understanding it
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2018, 01:25:35 PM »
+1
I just finished up doing one of these. All that junk is useless. Cut it off and just use the wires coming from the plug.
One note! switch the Gray and Orange wires other wise you locor will run backwards.
Wire has follows. Black to black, Red to red, Blue to blue, Gray to Yellow on the plug (Yellow is the orange on this set up) White to white.
Now you need to have a resistor ( 1K) from the decoder to the blue wire going to the loco- plus you need to have a separate blue with a 1K resistor to power up the rear light. Now you need to find out which wire is positive on the rear light- hook your blue with the resistor to that wire, then wire the yellow from the decoder to the other wire that goes to the rear light.   
Clear has mud?? ask before you hook things up if you do not understand.
one other thing- unless someone has modified the wipers on the tender you better do that other wise the .015 wire that is used for the wipers will act like brakes and keep the wheels from turning. I used .010  phosphor bronze wire and that let the wheels turn. One last thing watch the draw bar- I think that you will find that it holds up the front of the tender so you need to bend it down a bit so the front truck sets on the rails.

peteski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 21807
  • Gender: Male
  • Honorary Resident Curmudgeon
  • Respect: +2516
    • Coming (not so) soon...
Re: Brass GHB L1 tender circuit- need help understanding it
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2018, 02:10:52 PM »
+1
No keep-alive caps in there anywhere. Just diodes and resistors. It looks like a terrible kludge!  Judging by the text labels it is some sort of circuit for the LED headlights.  I would have to see the entire wiring of the loco to even try to figure out that that thing is for.

On second look I think this is the standard 8-pin decoder interface connector, with a dummy plug installed for running the loco in DC.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 02:13:27 PM by peteski »
--- Peteski de Snarkski

-"Look at me, I'm satirical!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm anal retentive!!!"
-"Look at me, I have the most posts evahhhh!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm snarky!!!!"
-"Look at me, I have OCD!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm a curmudgeon!!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm not negative, just blunt and honest!!!"

woodone

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 429
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +14
Re: Brass GHB L1 tender circuit- need help understanding it
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2018, 03:40:06 PM »
0
This is a DC locomotive wiring has it cam from the manufacture. All that there is here are resistors and diodes for directional lighting for the lights- there is also a jumper 8 pin dummy plug-remove and plug in a decoder.
The way the wiring looks,I would cut it all out! Don’t think I would trust the solder joints- they looked very poor on the one’s I worked on.

Lemosteam

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4041
  • Gender: Male
  • PRR, The Standard Railroad of my World
  • Respect: +1258
    • Designer at Keystone Details
Re: Brass GHB L1 tender circuit- need help understanding it
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2018, 04:28:56 PM »
0
Thanks guys for the feedback guys! 

Do you think I need a keep alive on this loco?

I'll figure out the LED, and thanks for the tip on the reversed wires from the factory!

woodone

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 429
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +14
Re: Brass GHB L1 tender circuit- need help understanding it
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2018, 05:55:17 PM »
0
You using just DCC= Or are you going with Sound too.
Not a lot of room in the tender, but with a LokSound you might be able to use a keep alive. With just DCC you should be able to add one.
you have no speaker so it frees up some room.
I used a Tsunami2 sound decoder and just used the 220 uF cap that came with the decoder.
Runs pretty good, I had to rework that draw bar like I said in my first post.

Lemosteam

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4041
  • Gender: Male
  • PRR, The Standard Railroad of my World
  • Respect: +1258
    • Designer at Keystone Details
Re: Brass GHB L1 tender circuit- need help understanding it
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2018, 07:27:48 PM »
0
Sound and DCC. @cbroughton67 did exactly what I am doing. Weird though, my decoder did not come with a cap from MBK.

cbroughton67

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 433
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +1349
Re: Brass GHB L1 tender circuit- need help understanding it
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2018, 09:08:20 PM »
0
You didn't tell me you kept that godawful plug! I completely rewired the boiler and tender on mine, and that "creature" was the first thing to land in the garbage can. I got the TCS 6-pin micro-connector (same size and style used in the GHB L1s), and basically started over. The factory wiring was a lost cause - brittle, etc, and getting rid of it IMO was mandatory. I hardwired the decoder, and ditching that plug freed up some real-estate in the tender for the decoder and speaker. I don't think the TCS KA4 was available when I rehabbed mine. Considering I've managed to squeeze them in an H8, it may not be out of the question on the L1s. If you can fit one it, great, but mine seem to do okay without. That's assuming you're replacing the trucks like I did. Otherwise, YMMV.
Chris
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 10:49:35 AM by cbroughton67 »
Chris Broughton

"Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society." - Mark Twain

cbroughton67

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 433
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +1349
Re: Brass GHB L1 tender circuit- need help understanding it
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2018, 09:17:12 PM »
0
Chris Broughton

"Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society." - Mark Twain

nstars

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 434
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +31
Re: Brass GHB L1 tender circuit- need help understanding it
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2018, 05:41:40 AM »
0
That’s what we also did, a complete rewire of the engine.

Marc

peteski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 21807
  • Gender: Male
  • Honorary Resident Curmudgeon
  • Respect: +2516
    • Coming (not so) soon...
Re: Brass GHB L1 tender circuit- need help understanding it
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2018, 09:35:03 PM »
0
That’s what we also did, a complete rewire of the engine.

Marc

That is what I'm planning with mine (once I get to that project). I did notice the factory installed cam on one of the driver's axles and was thinking of actually utilizing it for a perfect chuff sync.
--- Peteski de Snarkski

-"Look at me, I'm satirical!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm anal retentive!!!"
-"Look at me, I have the most posts evahhhh!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm snarky!!!!"
-"Look at me, I have OCD!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm a curmudgeon!!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm not negative, just blunt and honest!!!"

woodone

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 429
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +14
Re: Brass GHB L1 tender circuit- need help understanding it
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2018, 07:21:23 PM »
0
You might want to look at the weight up that Spookshow did not this loco!
And you are going to have search on your hands to find one? There were only about 200 made per Spookshow's information.
I have 2 that I just installed sound into them. Had to rework a lot of things to make run well.
A cam on the rear driver for a chuff sync? Not too many decoders use a cam for that any more. They just use the BEMF for that, with a few CV's to adjust the timing.

peteski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 21807
  • Gender: Male
  • Honorary Resident Curmudgeon
  • Respect: +2516
    • Coming (not so) soon...
Re: Brass GHB L1 tender circuit- need help understanding it
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2018, 08:57:45 PM »
0
You might want to look at the weight up that Spookshow did not this loco!
And you are going to have search on your hands to find one? There were only about 200 made per Spookshow's information.
I have 2 that I just installed sound into them. Had to rework a lot of things to make run well.
A cam on the rear driver for a chuff sync? Not too many decoders use a cam for that any more. They just use the BEMF for that, with a few CV's to adjust the timing.

I own one of those abortions. Bought it at the same time John bought his (when they were being dumped in as-is condition). I have also looked over its condition and while it is really nasty, it is salvageable. Perfect for a tinkerer like me.  That is the main reason for me being in this hobby. Like you said, this loco needs lots of love to make it usable.

I'm also well aware of the BEMF "virtual cam" chuff sync capabilities of most good quality sound decoders, but I still want to do a physical cam installation - just to be able to say that I did it.  And the cam being already installed makes this feat that much easier.
--- Peteski de Snarkski

-"Look at me, I'm satirical!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm anal retentive!!!"
-"Look at me, I have the most posts evahhhh!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm snarky!!!!"
-"Look at me, I have OCD!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm a curmudgeon!!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm not negative, just blunt and honest!!!"

woodone

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 429
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +14
Re: Brass GHB L1 tender circuit- need help understanding it
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2018, 11:01:07 PM »
0
Well if you are interested, I think that I have an brand new ( still in it original bag) a TSU 750 Soundtraxx decoder that used a cam for chuff.
Don't think that I WILL EVER USE IT?