shorten gap between Kato F units

[Albert in N]

Kato F units have a big gap between A units when coupled rear to rear.  Micro-Trains' conversion kit works, but takes a lot of effort, plus cutting the Kato spring pin inside the coupler box. I have read of folks using Unimates for this, but they are apparently no longer made.  Fox Valley Models short shank dummy couplers look good to me, and I note only Model Train Stuff seems to have them.  Before I order some, any special tricks for changing out Kato couplers for the Fox Valley ones?  For example, do you need to use a different spring, or is the stock Kato one OK?  My thought is to make it easy to reconvert back to Kato in the event I want to trade or sell the units in the years ahead.

[CR4100]

The Fox Valley dummy couplers are the same as the Unimates.  I've used them on Rapido equipped cars until they get MT body mount couplers. The only trick I can offer is to leave a short (1mm) piece of the sprue attached so that the spring can't escape as the coupler moves around.

[thomasjmdavis]

Yep, Unimate couplers became Red Caboose couplers became Fox Valley couplers...IIRC.

[mark.hinds]

FWIW, you might be interested in the close-coupling method I currently use; see reply #44 and reply #50 in this thread:  https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=28831.msg305681#msg305681  It gives you the prototype 3' spacing and is entirely reversible.  The down side is that you have to hand modify the parts, but once that's done, you are home free. 

MH

[wcfn100]

It gives you the prototype 3' spacing and is entirely reversible. 

Does anyone have a source that confirms 3' between F units?  I'd been hearing and using that number for years but don't know where it started.  I've since measured the gap between the D&RGW units at the CRRM and it's 41" between the ends of the body.

Jason

[mark.hinds]

Does anyone have a source that confirms 3' between F units?  I'd been hearing and using that number for years but don't know where it started.  I've since measured the gap between the D&RGW units at the CRRM and it's 41" between the ends of the body.

Jason

I used the dimensioned plans in Volume 2 of the MR Locomotive Cyclopedias.  Remember, it depends on where you measure from; see my previous post referencing an image. 

MH

[wcfn100]

Look at any reliable plans, such as those in the MR Locomotive Cyclopedias.  Remember, it depends on where you measure from; see my previous post referencing an image. 

MH

I measured the same as this picture AFAIK.





I have that MR book.  I good resource, but not something I'd bet on when talking about inches.  Besides, it doesn't show a measurement for back-to-back distance, just an 18" measurement from I assume the coupler face to probably the body.

It could also be that the F9s at the CRRM have a slightly longer space than the F3s.  IDK the answer which is why I"m asking.

edit: is there enough coupler slack to account for 5" between two cars?

Jason

[cjm413]

FWIW, you might be interested in the close-coupling method I currently use; see reply #44 and reply #50 in this thread:  https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=28831.msg305681#msg305681  It gives you the prototype 3' spacing and is entirely reversible.  The down side is that you have to hand modify the parts, but once that's done, you are home free. 

MH

Kato F's don't have frame-mounted couplers where some addtional modifications would be necessary.

[mark.hinds]

I just looked at a Kato F7, and you're right, cjm413, so my idea won't help him. 

MH

[mark.hinds]

I measured the same as this picture AFAIK.

(images removed)

I have that MR book.  I good resource, but not something I'd bet on when talking about inches.  Besides, it doesn't show a measurement for back-to-back distance, just an 18" measurement from I assume the coupler face to probably the body.

It could also be that the F9s at the CRRM have a slightly longer space than the F3s.  IDK the answer which is why I"m asking.

edit: is there enough coupler slack to account for 5" between two cars?

Jason

There are other plans, although I don't have them handy (Mainline Modeler?).  FWIW, the November-December 1983 issue of Prototype Modeler had a non-dimensioned side drawing of a pair of F7s coupled together.  Assuming the drawing is correct, and assuming the height from railhead to roof is 14' (the normal figure I've seen), the distance between the 2 car bodies, as drawn, is 3'.  One argument in favor of this drawing is it's from the pre-computer-imaging era, so the likelihood of a careless printer's aspect ratio error is less.  Again, FWIW.     

EDIT:  What I do with non-dimensioned drawings is to measure a known dimension using a quality ruler and a magnifier.  So in the above case, I solved the equation x = (3 x 2.64) / 14, and checked the result against the drawing of the distance between car bodies.  It matched. 

[Albert in N]

 Thanks guys, I will go ahead and get some Fox Valley (was Unimate) couplers.  For clarification, here is a photo showing lead AA units with Micro-Trains close coupling, following units with factory wide-gap Kato couplers, and A unit on side showing front coupler body mounted and rear coupler truck mounted.  FYI, Kato factory AB coupling of F units has less gap and I can live with those.  However, I have a Rock Island F-2 AA set and also run the Santa Fe F-7s as AA, since this is what the prototype railroads did to facilitate coupling.  I remember watching a Santa Fe crew switching cars on a local with AB units and a brakeman back in the early 1970s!

[atsf3751]

I model Santa Fe and my F units always run as ABBA sets. I use two methods to close couple them and remove the five foot gap they come with. I also prefer the Intermountain engines because, for me, they look better. Intermountain was the first company to paint the Santa Fe engines with two colors of silver to simulate stainless steel. I use a drawbar between those engines to get them closer together, I cut the head off one screw so I can separate them. I am not at home now so I cannot confirm this, but I believe I used Unimates on my Kato engines to get the same effect. I also use American Limited diaphragms between the car bodies to close the remaining air gap between the doors. Sometimes there is only room for one, but visually that improves the appearance.

[mark.hinds]

There seem to be a number of plans online.  This one's the same as the MR Cyclopedia (18" x 2).  http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/Railroads/EMD_F3_DWG.png .  Probably from a modeler's magazine, though. 

MH

[MK]

I measured the same as this picture AFAIK.





I have that MR book.  I good resource, but not something I'd bet on when talking about inches.  Besides, it doesn't show a measurement for back-to-back distance, just an 18" measurement from I assume the coupler face to probably the body.

It could also be that the F9s at the CRRM have a slightly longer space than the F3s.  IDK the answer which is why I"m asking.

edit: is there enough coupler slack to account for 5" between two cars?

Jason

Where did you get that N-scale racoon?????

[mark.hinds]

And then there's the good old NP historical society, where I get my box car "plans":  http://www.nprha.org/Diesel%20Diagrams/EMD%20F-7%20Pass%206601A-6602A%2055.jpg

MH