Poor power pickup on Atlas RSD-4

[Curtis Kyger]

Metal tabs that go from brush holders on the motor to the bottom of the decoder board/light board sometimes get skewed so they have poor and/or occasional electrical contact.  You may be able to temporarily move the tabs with a small screwdriver inserted between the board and brush holder (off rail of course--with the electrical power no longer applied to the locomotive) but I suggest soldering a short bit of wire from the brush holder cap to the board.

[tehachapifan]

How about wheel gauge? While perhaps a longshot, I believe it's possible that, if wheelsets are way under gauged, the axle points may not make solid contact with the axle cups.

[peteski]

Metal tabs that go from brush holders on the motor to the bottom of the decoder board/light board sometimes get skewed so they have poor and/or occasional electrical contact.  You may be able to temporarily move the tabs with a small screwdriver inserted between the board and brush holder (off rail of course--with the electrical power no longer applied to the locomotive) but I suggest soldering a short bit of wire from the brush holder cap to the board.

While that could be a problem, danjo stated that replacing the trucks made the loco perform reasonable well, so the way I see it the problem is in the area of the trucks (including the metal tab which connects the trucks pickup plate to the flat pickup spring in the chassis.

[thomasjmdavis]

from the original post...

I placed the locomotives on some glass, and saw that both locomotives fail to have all the wheels touch the glass at the same time.  The wheels on only 3 out of 4 truck sides are ever touching the glass. 

I have to believe that the pickup problem is right there in the trucks.  In a couple cases where I have disassembled and reassembled power trucks, I did not get the wheel wipers seated properly, and this became apparent upon examination because the wheels were wonky. 

If the wheels are out of level as described, it would seem to mean that either something is out of place in the truck assembly, or that the whole truck was not mounted correctly to the frame and sitting at a slight angle- either of which could obviously cause connectivity issues.

[AKNscale]

I seem to remember trucks being improperly assembled by Atlas on some of the SD50s. I don't know how exactly the RSD trucks are set up, but think you could be right Thomas. That could be something worth looking in to.

[Cajonpassfan]

I looked at them, liked the looks, but wistfully decided they were just a bit new for my era. I need to keep my focus.

Reading this, I'm glad I did. It's ridiculous that in this day and age, Atlas would release formula second generation units that have electrical pickup issues, and add insult to injury, if true, by producing locos that don't pull well. I would have thought we've gotten beyond that in N scale, especially with respectable companies like Atlas. Frustrating, it's like going backwards. Makes me think twice about preordering future releases. Too bad...
Otto K.

Minus one. Really?

[peteski]

Minus one. Really?

I don't vote often but I fixed it for you. 
I'm glad that I'm not the only one miffed at the voting system. Come on folks - can't we have opinions here without down-votes?  I know, I'll probably get dinged for this comment too.

But to address your original statement, is this a new loco or simply another run of an older model?  If it is the latter then Atlas probably just didn't see any need to change the design.

Then there is the over-lubrication issue using thick grease. This has been always been a problem with Chinese-made models. Then we also have a new problem with whatever coating is on the freshly-made wheels. This is not the fist time I've heard about this problem (and on multiple models).  This might be caused by someone at the factory changing the way the wheels are blackened or corrosion-proofed.

As for anemic pulling ability, I'm not sure if that can be contributed solely to the idler axles. Easy way to test that would be to remove them from the trucks and see how the loco pulls. But there could be other factors (like the surface finish on the wheel tread, and the total weight of the model).

[danjo]

Thanks for all of the helpful comments! Below are answers to various questions posed.

Yes, track and wheels were of course cleaned.

The trucks themselves sit completely level on the glass once pulled off the engine.  It is only once installed on the engine that the warp of the frames causes the wobble across the diagonal axis.

I already have the motor hardwired to the decoder (TCS CN classic).

Agreed that these don't seem like great pullers.  12 cars goes fine, 15 cars cause some stalls and wheels spinning.  I'm not sure if the unpowered axle in each truck is the cause of this.  It might just be the lack of weight due to the physically small body of the RS/RSD engines.  This isn't particularly a problem for me as I tend to run a max train length of 12 - 15 cars anyway on my layout.

In the end I was able to get one of the two units running decently.  On the one with the least frame warp I cleaned the pickup cups intensely, and bent the wheel wiper piece slightly so there would be greater pressure between the cups and axle points on the front and rear axles. This got it running decently.  The unit with more frame warp still stalls all over the place after this same treatment.  It will have to go back to Atlas.

Someone commented that this sort of unreliability should be unacceptable out of the box.  I agree.  I can only imagine how frustrating this level of locomotive reliability would be to newcomers to the hobby.   The last six Atlas locomotives I've purchased (out of 7 Atlas engines I have) have all had some sort of problem that caused them to run poorly before adjustments.  Back when I was in HO I found Atlas locomotives to be the best, but now in N I have had better luck with Bachmann engines running correctly out of the box (4 out of 5).  Seems like Atlas needs to step up their quality assurance and testing before shipping these to customers.

Thanks,
Dan

[JanesCustomTrain]

Seems like Atlas needs to step up their quality assurance and testing before shipping these to customers.

It's called QC by end user. No need to waste money on QC if everyone starts to fix their models instead of sending them back for warranty exchange. We wouldn't accept it with a toaster or a cattle which cost way less but expensive model trains. Defective out of the box, nah, I can fix this, no need to send it back to Atlas   

Jane

[AKNscale]

Sending it back takes way too long, hence why I still have an SD35 with a shim in the flywheel, lol

[central.vermont]

I'm with Jane on this. The more we "fix" them ourselves the more it hurts quality control.
If it's new and has a problem RETURN IT!!!
But if you buy used at a show or hobby shop then all bets are off and it's time to tinker!! 

Jon

[Kentuckian]

I just got a couple of these, too. I think the biggest issue is weight. These have  50% more wheels, so they need 50% more weight to get the same adhesion. Like Max found out with the issues he was having with his scratch built tender, weight matters.

This is simple to test. Grab a mass of something and lay it on the engine temporarily. See if it doesn’t perform better. They get some sheet lead, tungsten weights, depleted uranium, whatever is your choice for weight. I ordered sheet lead off the internet. Tungsten weights and putty can be found at Hobby Lobby with the pine car derby stuff. I don’t have a source depleted uranium. Some people cast their own lead weights; I have not tried that yet. Stuff the cab with weight. You may have room under the hood for some sheet lead, but I would cover it with tape to be sure it doesn’t touch the decoder.

As far as QA/QC, I agree that it needs to be better. But of course, that adds to the cost.

We probably can’t get 50% more weight without totally replacing the frame with some sort of retro frame, but we can try.

[brokemoto]

As for anemic pulling ability, I'm not sure if that can be contributed solely to the idler axles. Easy way to test that would be to remove them from the trucks and see how the loco pulls.

As  the model gearing arrangement is B-1-1-B, I would have to wonder if removing the idler axles would give an accurate demonstration.  If it were A-1-A, perhaps.  The reason that I arrived at the conclusion that I did was that I noticed that my RSD-4s did not pull as well as the RS-3. As the RSD-4 is simply an RS-3 with six axle trucks instead of four, I concluded that the culprit on the reduced pulling power was the idler axles, be it the arrangment, mere presence or both.

As a comparison, the Kato RSC-2 pulls slightly better than its brother the RS-2.  While the prototype on this one was A-1-A, the model is C-C, which provides an extra geared axle.


A proto-bashing note, though.................

Seaboard Air Line had a number or RSC-2s (A-1-A) that it ordered to work the orchards and groves in harvest season.  They laid snap track into the trees, ran the cars right up in there, then pulled them out of there.  As the track was, of necessity, very light, there were severe restrictions on axle loadings.  The RSC-2 was well suited to this service due to the presence of the idler axle.  The railroad ordered them equipped with steam generators and signalling devices so that they could protect passenger schedules, as well (keep in mind that the Florida trains were well patronised even into the late 1960s).  At some point, the railroad did remove the idler axles on these things and operated them with just the geared axles.  I assume that this was due to their  being assigned to different tasks, but I do not k now.  I have to wonder what removing the idler axles did to the integrity of the trucks, but, perhaps they were assigned to switching tasks, which would not require high speed operation.  I suspect that whatever was the new task of these things, it required a little more tractive effort, so the railroad removed the idler axles.

[thomasjmdavis]

It doesn't bother me to attach some bit that came loose in shipping, or some minor adjustment (axle point isn't sitting properly in the "cup").

But a warped frame?  Nope, warped frames go back to the factory.  I can't fix that.  No excuse for it.  I expect ISO 9000 type quality standards if I am going to pay $100+ for an N scale locomotive. 

I have not personally encountered a major issue with anything made by Atlas since the late 1970s (had a GP9 of that vintage where the gears cracked), except some gear and motor issues with locos I bought used on the "big auction site" and given the price I paid, if a couple of them ended up as "parts" locos, it's ok.

danjo wrote:

It is only once installed on the engine that the warp of the frames causes the wobble across the diagonal axis.

Sorry, somehow in my reading through the thread, I "missed the memo" that the frames had been determined to be the issue (as opposed to one of a number of possibilities).  Per above, I would send them back if that is the issue, or at least inform Atlas and see if they will supply the parts.  I will be checking any loco I buy new from here on.

[djconway]

One of the problems with the "send it back" mode of operations is that with the make to orders production you risk the manafacturer not being able to replace your model.  I've sent in PRR locos and received ATSF units as warenty replacements, if I'm lucky enough to get a GP9 for GP9.  Some manafacturers have even offered to replace a failing 4-6-2 with a 2-8-4. This just produces items for swaps.