Derailment on to SB I-5 in Nisqually - Dupont, WA

[wazzou]

What is that mangled metal just after the fence line? Kinda looks like a signal.

That is a signal mast.

I'd be really surprised if fatigue played any role in this as the location is only 1-1/2 hours South of the train's departure origin in Seattle.
The trip to Portland is only just over 3 hours total.
On Friday, the route was run over by dignitaries from Amtrak, the State of Washington and other local agencies.
As I mentioned earlier, they have run test trains over this route for over 6 months, testing crossing horn and gate timing, matched with train speeds and I would assume for training of train crews.
I've seen a myriad of track Geometry vehicles on the line, again as I've said, the bulk of this trackage parallels Interstate 5, on my route home, so it has been easy to see the amount of work and the location of it.
The bulk of the work on the line was conducted under contract with Stacy & Witbeck as far as the WSDOT portion is concerned, which includes the portion where the accident occurred.
Railworks did most of the Northern end under contract with Sound Transit.
I'd wager to guess, speed will be the cause and I can't imagine why as it is the only curve on the line for miles and it is well signaled, including at the bridge approach.

[peteski]

I'd wager to guess, speed will be the cause and I can't imagine why as it is the only curve on the line for miles and it is well signaled, including at the bridge approach.

Since all sorts of speculation is going on, how about the engineer having a death-wish? Terrorist maybe? Or on the lest sinister side, maybe engineer has a medical episode?

[draskouasshat]

That is a signal mast.

I'd be really surprised if fatigue played any role in this as the location is only 1-1/2 hours South of the train's departure origin in Seattle.
The trip to Portland is only just over 3 hours total.
On Friday, the route was run over by dignitaries from Amtrak, the State of Washington and other local agencies.
As I mentioned earlier, they have run test trains over this route for over 6 months, testing crossing horn and gate timing, matched with train speeds and I would assume for training of train crews.
I've seen a myriad of track Geometry vehicles on the line, again as I've said, the bulk of this trackage parallels Interstate 5, on my route home, so it has been easy to see the amount of work and the location of it.
The bulk of the work on the line was conducted under contract with Stacy & Witbeck as far as the WSDOT portion is concerned, which includes the portion where the accident occurred.
Railworks did most of the Northern end under contract with Sound Transit.
I'd wager to guess, speed will be the cause and I can't imagine why as it is the only curve on the line for miles and it is well signaled, including at the bridge approach.

We don't signal for curves. Our signal system doesn't care if the track had a 10 or 100mph curve. Speed restrictions are either posted in the timetable as a permanent restriction, in the bulletins, or posted with our without flags displayed.
After seeing the last photos, it will be speed as the deciding factor. The train actuary rode the retaining wall around the curve.

Adam

[Doug G.]

I agree. Somehow, it will be speed-related. For God's sake, the train went straight off the outside of the curve.

Doug

[delamaize]

I'm embarrassed to say that I've seen at least one nut job post claiming the "government is covering up what is actually an antifa terrorist attack because they're protesting fracking"...   

It's Blatantly obvious that this wasn't an antifa attack. It's really looking like this was a speed issue.
But, if it wasn't obvious, I wouldn't put it past those assholes. After all, a month or so ago, in this area, they were distributing instructions on how to make derails out of concrete, and other easily had materials.

Also, my money is on overspeed due to lack of knowledge of the new route. The speed was suppose to be 79, with a speed reduction down to 30 at that turn.

[up1950s]

1 ... A 3 kinda looks like an 8 .

2 ... Could be that the info given to the engineer was " keep it at 80 all the way " , from some big wig that didn't know the exception , or was not told about the exception .

3 ... Could be he or she engineer had to hit the head and told the co-pilot to maintain speed , but got the runs or was otherwise tooting the tuba too long .

4 ... Could be that at 80 MPH the speed of 30 , if marked at all was positioned way to close to the bridge to slow down .

5 ... Could be that the tests were done by familiar engineers , and this engineer was not . The test engineers and muckity mucks didn't make a point of this restricted area .

Shouldn't there have been a Sperry Rail Detector run on this entire modified route being it would be used for passenger service ? And the data gathered from that should have track geometry , grades , and curves ........no ??? Was that info applied to signaling and signage ? Was physical changes installed ?

[Doug G.]

I will stick my neck out and say there was nothing wrong with the track unless it was sabotaged.

Doug

[MK]

Just heard on CBS radio in NYC that NTSB said train was doing 80 in a 30 zone.  3 deaths, not initial 6 as reported.

[draskouasshat]

 An engineer isn't just thrown into a locomotive and told to run a train. They have to run a certain number of runs on a new to the crew member line unpaid(bnsf not sure on amtrak). Most likely this is a human error accident where he just got complacent.

[p51]

I work just north of this, and had gone through there northbound minutes before this incident.
As of this morning, they cleared the one coach that was partially hanging off the bridge, and it looked like the wheeled vehicles and the upside down coach were gone from under the bridge (just went under there a little while ago, left well over half an hour early, just in case). The radio is saying they might have 1-2 lanes  of I-5 open by the afternoon commute.
They closed the back road through JBLM going to Mounts road that was open last night (only took us an extra half hour or so, that way). So now, they're turning people around at the center St exit, back onto I-5 north (I bet those drivers were livid to wait that long and then get turned around). No clue where they're going from there.
Some of my coworkers took almost 5 hours to get home last night, going various directions. If perimeter road at JBLM is closed tonight, God knows how long it'll take us to get home tonight. If that's the case and nothing has changed tomorrow, I might just call in sick for Wednesday.

I had two pals on the train, both badly dinged up (one has several fractures, including pelvis, fluid around the kidneys and a minor brain bleed).
The engineer, I was told, has some bruises and abrasions and some glass cuts from his wild ride down that embankment. Sure looks like he rolled the locomotive from the damage to the top of it, but I don't know that for sure.
I actually talked with the engineer at an event in October. I'm glad he doesn't appear to have been badly hurt.

As for the train, what I understand from people who worked on the tests is that the only test trains they ran were during the unusually dry summer we had, with trains that had very few people on board. The SOP they developed for southbound trains is to do an air dump when passing under the Center street exit overpass, which put those trains in a good speed for that curve. This train yesterday was mostly full and ran in very wet weather (as far as I know, they ran no Cascades tests on wet rails earlier this year). If the head end did the air dump like they were supposed to, the engineer might not be at fault for what happened next.

[up1950s]

An engineer isn't just thrown into a locomotive and told to run a train. They have to run a certain number of runs on a new to the crew member line unpaid(bnsf not sure on amtrak). Most likely this is a human error accident where he just got complacent.

UNPAID wow . Wouldn't that during the LEARNING CURVE make him legally a non employee ? Isn't that illegal ? Sounds like a catch 22 of sorts .

[Philip H]

As for the train, what I understand from people who worked on the tests is that the only test trains they ran were during the unusually dry summer we had, with trains that had very few people on board. The SOP they developed for southbound trains is to do an air dump when passing under the Center street exit overpass, which put those trains in a good speed for that curve. This train yesterday was mostly full and ran in very wet weather (as far as I know, they ran no Cascades tests on wet rails earlier this year). If the head end did the air dump like they were supposed to, the engineer might not be at fault for what happened next.

Even in dry conditions why would you dump air coming down into a speed restricted curve?  And how in the name of Rainier Beer could they not do tests in wet weather since that's the majority of their operating environment? 

[draskouasshat]

UNPAID wow . Wouldn't that during the LEARNING CURVE make him legally a non employee ? Isn't that illegal ? Sounds like a catch 22 of sorts .

Its just what they do. You're learning the territory by watching, not doing actual work (if you want to call running a train work that is)   

[C855B]

There has to be training pay, though possibly minimal. Requiring an employee to be on the property as a condition of current or future job assignment puts them on the clock, for an endless list of legal reasons.

[Maletrain]

4 ... Could be that at 80 MPH the speed of 30 , if marked at all was positioned way to close to the bridge to slow down .

One report stated that the 30 mph restriction is posted 2 miles before the curve in each direction as well as at the curve on both sides.

As for a "3" looking like an "8", that might be something the engineer could claim.  But, isn't he supposed to know the route, anyway?