Looking for info (drawings/photos/newsclips) Pennsylvania Limited 1889

[cne_craig]

Greetings, 

My name is Craig Michaelsen and am interested in 1889 Pennsylvania Limited consists (only a few posts here so I can only provide links to pics and such).  I research a small rail line in Connecticut originally called the Connecticut Western which eventually became the Central New England (ie the Poughkeepsie Bridge Route).  My interest in the "Limited" stems from a mystery photo that has plagued fans of the CNE for years.  Here's a link to the photo:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yTu0foOWxWT0EtOFRoS196RXM/view?usp=sharing

It shows Locomotive 1053 of the Pennsylvania Railroad on the turntable of the Central New England and Western in Hartford Connecticut.  CNEW #24 is barely shown just to the right.  We were told this engine appeared in Hartford for some type of convention.  Finally tracked down the specifics of that convention and the 6 week tour the delegates ​took prior to the start of the convention.  Here's a link to the Haiti Trust that has the scan of the tour booklet:

https://archive.org/stream/tourtenderedbygo00penn#page/n0/mode/1up

The first 17 pages deals with the daily itinerary of the tour.  Starting on page 18 a detailed description of the whole train is provided.  Really interesting stuff and great detail.   Through my research in old newspaper accounts the train did travel across the Poughkeepsie Bridge to travel to Boston and catch up with the ferried convention that travelled from West Point to Fall River.  The train possibly went over twice since there was an earlier inspection tour by the PRR of the bridge in June 1889.

So I'm  primarily interested in actual photo's of the consist, but would also be interested in similar cars.  My interest is both historical and, as a Nscale modeler, enough information to attempt to model the train.  Some of the bits and pieces I've collected so far are as follows:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yTu0foOWxWeHVDSWlDUlAzSk0/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yTu0foOWxWMmJXN01fVGZvaFk/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yTu0foOWxWeVhYZEtURUU1cDQ/view?usp=sharing

So Thanks in advance, and enjoy the linked items,  even if your not a PRR fan the tour touched so many other roads its a worthy read IMHO.

Cheers,
Craig

[Mark5]

Some info here: https://books.google.com/books?id=HVPQTanDDAkC&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=ulysses+baggage+pennsylvania+railroad&source=bl&ots=fAHjbG86hj&sig=JvXlW2q3NNSk0jMQjGnj1PnEy2M&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiry4b3yeHWAhWM4CYKHUUXBVkQ6AEIJjAA#v=onepage&q=ulysses%20baggage%20pennsylvania%20railroad&f=false

But that is 1899. I am guessing that the cars (including the "Ulysses" link you posted) were all built after 1889.

Mark

[cne_craig]

Thank you Mark5.

You are correct about those cars being built after 1889.  The wide vestibules started showing up after 1893 I believe.  I suspect the only difference would be Pullman's adoption of the wide vestibule over the cars built between 1887 and 1893.  One of the links shows an drawing of the narrow vestibule with a split door leading into the vestibule.

The tour was a significant event and I've got to believe there's some photographer of the era who recorded the occasion. 

I did find a shot of the Limited on a bridge, but the photo is a bit fuzzy.  Shows cars without a wide vestibule so its prior to 1893, but it could be earlier than 1887.

http://digital.hagley.org/1993231_072

Cheers,
Craig

[cne_craig]

Well, of all places I found some potential related pics on a "Down Under" site. 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/state-records-nsw/with/3973345942/

Here's a shot from Pullman with a finished sleeping car that seems to fit:

https://flic.kr/p/7z7t6h

And another from Down Under:

https://goo.gl/images/gciQCf
This picture was taken in 2013 (WOW).
NSWGR AF 25 sleeping car built Pullman Car Co., 1891
One of 8 cars built by Pullman in the USA and delivered to Sydney, NSW, Australia, in 1891. These cars had a rich and varied life. No.20 lasted 100 years and No.23 lasted 90 years.

[Mark5]

I'm posting this so I can refer to the consist when searching (in my bored moments )

Mark

[nickelplate759]

Well, of all places I found some potential related pics on a "Down Under" site. 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/state-records-nsw/with/3973345942/

Here's a shot from Pullman with a finished sleeping car that seems to fit:

https://flic.kr/p/7z7t6h

And another from Down Under:

https://goo.gl/images/gciQCf
This picture was taken in 2013 (WOW).
NSWGR AF 25 sleeping car built Pullman Car Co., 1891
One of 8 cars built by Pullman in the USA and delivered to Sydney, NSW, Australia, in 1891. These cars had a rich and varied life. No.20 lasted 100 years and No.23 lasted 90 years.

Pretty sure the picture was posted in 2013, not taken then.  I note that Flickr claims the first picture was "taken" in 2009....

[cne_craig]

While searching for links and images for early Pullman Sleeper/Dining/Combination cars I came across a site (http://utahrails.net/pass/wooden-pullman.php) with references to Eric Neubauer's book, Early Pullman Car Freight and Passenger Car Production.  His site ericsrailroadcarhistory.com lists quite a few interesting books for those interested and should be bookmarked for future reference.

Eric provided some tidbits on the Pullman cars:

Esperanza built  4-87 as part of lot C1325 plan 477, a CS “library” type car assigned to the PRR. Another Esperanza was built in 9-06.

Windsor built 5-88 as part of lot C1411 plan 538D. Not specifically assigned to PRR and apparently was renamed or retired fairly quickly. Another Windsor was built in 1-00 and used on the UP.

India built 3-89 lot C1529 plan 622 or 622A

Haven't found anything on Washington, Columbus, or Japan, so my next step (recommended by Eric) is to contact the Illinois Raillway Museum to see if they have any drawings that apply (Thanks Eric.)

Cheers,
Craig

[cne_craig]

Some additional information:

Many citations in articles mention the cars were built in Wilmington DE.

Pullman in the late 1880's acquired Jackson and Sharp/Union Palace Car/Mann Boudoir Car.

Eric mentioned he had found no information on Columbus, Washington, and Japan in his Pullman database which may indicate the cars were built by Jackson Sharp.

A search of Delaware Public Archives reveals a possible hit on Columbus shown here without narrow vestibules in 1884:
http://cdm15323.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/p15323coll6/id/2373


Cheers,
Craig