New Run of Athearn Challengers, Surprise!

[robert3985]

Not to derail, do you have a specific number you use for wheel back spacings?  The NMRA standards allow .297"/ .303".

I don't mic my turnouts, (although I could)...I use the NMRA N Scale Standards Gage to greatly speed things up.  For appearance's sake, I want my flangeways and clearances at the switch point toes to be as small as possible and still be within NMRA standards.  Having been a machinist since I was 14 years old, I use the "feel" of the NMRA Standards Gage as it passes through flangeways and the gaps at the switch point toes, and I want the "feel" to be almost an interference fit...meaning the tabs on the gage don't glide unobstructed through these areas, but have to be dragged because the rails on each side of the tabs are rubbing them.

In areas where I set the gauge between the rails of my turnouts while building them, I use three Micro Engineering three-point gauges for most of my turnout construction and to hold the rails in place, but in areas the three-point-gauges won't fit, such as track gauge at closed switch points, I use the track gauge tabs on the NMRA N Scale Standards Gage, also utilizing a slightly "tight" feel against my fingers.

Using these "tight" clearances makes my engines and cars roll much smoother through my turnouts, especially narrow-tired wheelsets such as FVM Semi Scale Fine Tread Wheelsets, with the only "drawback" being, if you can call it that, that everything that rolls on the tracks on my layout has to be perfectly gauged...and it is now just normal operating procedure for me...to check an engine's wheel gauge (and fix it) before I let it run on the layout.

Personally, I think modelers should be doing that anyway before they run new engines.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[nkalanaga]

Max:  THANK YOU!  I printed those instructions, and will put them in the box with the loco.  I may never have a reason to run it regularly, but if I do, it sounds easy enough.

As for the sound, I can easily do without it.  None of my other locos have sound anyway.

[narrowminded]

I don't mic my turnouts, (although I could)...I use the NMRA N Scale Standards Gage to greatly speed things up.  For appearance's sake, I want my flangeways and clearances at the switch point toes to be as small as possible and still be within NMRA standards.  Having been a machinist since I was 14 years old, I use the "feel" of the NMRA Standards Gage as it passes through flangeways and the gaps at the switch point toes, and I want the "feel" to be almost an interference fit...meaning the tabs on the gage don't glide unobstructed through these areas, but have to be dragged because the rails on each side of the tabs are rubbing them.

In areas where I set the gauge between the rails of my turnouts while building them, I use three Micro Engineering three-point gauges for most of my turnout construction and to hold the rails in place, but in areas the three-point-gauges won't fit, such as track gauge at closed switch points, I use the track gauge tabs on the NMRA N Scale Standards Gage, also utilizing a slightly "tight" feel against my fingers.

Using these "tight" clearances makes my engines and cars roll much smoother through my turnouts, especially narrow-tired wheelsets such as FVM Semi Scale Fine Tread Wheelsets, with the only "drawback" being, if you can call it that, that everything that rolls on the tracks on my layout has to be perfectly gauged...and it is now just normal operating procedure for me...to check an engine's wheel gauge (and fix it) before I let it run on the layout.

Personally, I think modelers should be doing that anyway before they run new engines.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

Thanks, Bob.    It sounds like you're not setting a specific dimension but just very carefully using the NMRA gauge which should work as that's the point of it.   I only asked as I'm trying to select an assembly standard for items I'm making and was inclined to settle on a wheel back dimension target of .300" +/- .001".  The standard would allow for a couple of more than that but if someone who's been around a little and had experience that would move that target up or down a little, still within the NMRA tolerance, I'd be happy to use that target as I can hold the tolerance without trouble.  Thanks for your reply.

[mmagliaro]

So, I had a friend's new Challenger here to try out on my DC layout.  Yes, it needs every bit of 12 volts to actually run.
10v won't do it.  Even on 12v, it can only manage a slow speed, I'd say around 20 mph.  So just be aware of this is if you plan on using this thing on a DC-only layout.   The best option is to open the tender, unplug, and bypass that decoder as I described earlier.

All the wheels are narrow in gauge, and on the tender it was severe enough to cause it to hop through turnouts.  Again, if it were my engine, I would regauge all of it, even the drivers, which means pulling the rods and putting them in a puller.

As to the pulling power issue that Delamaize mentioned -
Yep, this thing could pull 22 cars on level track, only 13 up a 1.7% grade.
The traction tires on this thing are very narrow, too narrow, really.  They only occupy about 1/2 the width of the driver tread, which is not good.  And because they are located in toward the flanges, it would help if the drivers were spread out to the correct gauge.  But another issue is that the traction tires do not protrude out above the metal tread surface of the driver.  If you gently scrape a straight metal edge (like an Xacto blade) over the driver tread, right over the traction tire, you will see that you can smoothly swipe right over the tire without touching it because the metal part of the driver sticks out further than the tire.

Since it wasn't my engine, it didn't stay here for me to start tinkering.  But...

I would suggest the fix for this is to pull the crankpins out, remove the traction tire driver set, remove the traction tire, and then place a thin thin strip of cellophane tape down in the bottom of the tire groove (cut the tape with a razor and a straight edge).  Then replace the tire.  It will now protrude a few thousandths of an inch above the metal tread surface, and I bet the traction will be much better.   Given how narrow the tires are, you really need to regauge the drivers so the flanges will ride right out near the inside faces of the rails to avoid having a driver slip off the edge of the tire and land on the metal half of the wheel.

This engine had no rod jamming or pickup problems.  It ran really nice other than the above 2 issues.

Regauge the wheels, pad out the tires, and it should be really great.

[nkalanaga]

Thank you for the review.  I wonder why they didn't do a DCC-ready version, as they have before?  If they had, I would have bought that, probably been very happy with my new steamer, and be planning a few fan trips for my railroad.

[mmagliaro]

Thank you for the review.  I wonder why they didn't do a DCC-ready version, as they have before?  If they had, I would have bought that, probably been very happy with my new steamer, and be planning a few fan trips for my railroad.

They did, and it is still listed on their website, for a list price about $100 cheaper than the DCC/sound equipped version.
The SP&S one is #911.
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH22935

[nkalanaga]

Interesting.  The price shown for the DC version is what Chuck charged me for the DCC version.  I wonder if someone goofed somewhere?  The shipping list has the DCC part number, so it was what I ordered, or at least what his computer said I ordered.  So far, I haven't found my original order.

[Cajonpassfan]

Bump,
rather than starting another thread...
So far, I haven't had any issues with my challengers, other than their tendency to throw their traction tires when slipping. I need  to find a way to keep the TT's in place...what's the collective wisdom about the best method?
I'm thinking a thin application of flexible contact cement? Or a thin strip of double sided Scotch tape, to kill two birds with one stone.  Anyone has any experience with this?
Otto K.

[peteski]

Bump,
rather than starting another thread...
So far, I haven't hand any issues with my challengers, other than theei tendency to throw their traction tires when slipping. I need  to find a way to keep the TT's in place...what's the collective wisdom about the best method?
I'm thinking a thin application of flexible contact cement? Or a thin strip of double sided Scotch tape, to kill two birds with one stone.  Anyone has any experience with this?
Otto K.

I have never glued TTs to wheels, so I don't have any tips. But the important question is "why is the loco slipping"?  That should not happen during normal operations.  I would say that it would not be unusual for any TT to come off under those conditions.

Using double-sided tape will increase the diameter of that driver's thread. That might affect the locos running quality.

[mmagliaro]

I use 3 or 4 little smears of Walthers Goo down in the groove.  It's flexible and sticky, and you will still be able to get the tire off and clean up the groove one day if you need to change it.   I run the engine and apply some downward pressure with my hand to make sure the tire is seated and even (it will squeeze out any excess Goo if you get a slightly large blob of it anywhere).  It's best to just use it sparingly so there is no oozing or mess.

[Cajonpassfan]

Thank you Max, Goo is one of my very favorite adhesives and has been of the last 40 years... I'll give that a try.
Peteski, I know wheels shouldn't slip in "normal operation". And they don't, until suddenly they do, and invariably, the TT is off, so I don't know whether the engine slips because the tire came off, or the loco slipped, thus throwing the tire. Either way I'm tired of putting it back on, hence the glue idea. It does happen on grade, with a relatively light train. These pups look great and run well, but don't pull much, especially given their size and weight.
Otto

[Englewood]

I seem to remember using a little paint on my Kato 4-8-4 to help keep the traction tire on. It's thin enough where it won't change the diameter of the wheel, and if you use a dark color, it won't be noticeable.

[Cajonpassfan]

Well, it seems my GooTube was a bit old and stiff, so I used my other favorite glue, Weldwood contact cement. It's thin and so I was able to float a little of it along the groove and set the TT in it. Appears to have done the job nicely, I'm letting it set.

Next I turned my attention to my other Challenger, where the TT is stretched way out (see pic). I ended up stretching it, gluing it and cutting the material short. It's no longer a continuous loop, we'll see if the cement holds.

My final problem is my third Challenger, where the TT apparently broke and is nowhere to be found. I need a replacement. Try -Athearn?

Otto K.

[peteski]

Well, it seems my GooTube was a bit old and stiff, so I used my other favorite glue, Weldwood contact cement. It's thin and so I was able to float a little of it along the groove and set the TT in it. Appears to have done the job nicely, I'm letting it set.

Next I turned my attention to my other Challenger, where the TT is stretched way out (see pic). I ended up stretching it, gluing it and cutting the material short. It's no longer a continuous loop, we'll see if the cement holds.

My final problem is my third Challenger, where the TT apparently broke and is nowhere to be found. I need a replacement. Try -Athearn?

Otto K.

Man, you are hard on those tires!   

If Athearn doesn't come through, here is a thread listing several sources of TTs. https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=44426.0 You should be able to find something that will fit.

[Cajonpassfan]

Man, you are hard on those tires!   

If Athearn doesn't come through, here is a thread listing several sources of TTs. https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=44426.0 You should be able to find something that will fit.

Oh yea, real hard. I actually try to pull (too short) trains with them, what a concept...
Thanks for the link Pete!
Otto