Author Topic: Possible New Water Medium?  (Read 1294 times)

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C855B

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Possible New Water Medium?
« on: October 04, 2017, 12:48:57 PM »
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Just received a sale flyer e-mail from Blick's (art supply) featuring a new-to-me product, Vallejo Pouring Medium. It's a pourable transparent acrylic that from the description appears may be a good candidate for simulating water. It's surprisingly inexpensive, at $12 for 500ml.

Anybody know anything about it? Anybody want to try it?

Blick's has also just started carrying Vallejo's artists paints, in 100ml bottles. I'm curious about these as well, and how they compare to Model Color and Model Air. We just placed a big Blick's order and it's en route, or I would've added these to the shipment. Next time.
...mike

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dougnelson

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Re: Possible New Water Medium?
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2017, 05:50:30 PM »
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I have used gloss acrylic medium for water with excellent results.  The liquid form spreads and creates a smooth surface.  You can also use gloss acrylic medium gel to create waves and other water effects.  This is the same product that Woodland Scenics calls "Realistic Water", and is probably the same as the Vallejo product.  I highly recommend it.  Non-toxic, no fumes, and best of all, no two-part mixing, so no waste or rush to mix more.  Pour straight from the bottle.  You do need to seal and dam the areas where you want water.  Since it is acrylic medium, you can also tint it as needed.

tom mann

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Re: Possible New Water Medium?
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2017, 09:54:04 PM »
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I'm about to experiment with Gamblin's GamVar as an alternative to Magic Water. This is a 'fine art' product used for varnishing artwork, but it can go on very thick and is odorless; but I wouldn't pour it on.

It shouldn't yellow for decades.

https://www.gamblincolors.com/oil-painting/gamvar-picture-varnish/

randgust

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Re: Possible New Water Medium?
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2017, 04:48:23 PM »
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I had such a near-death experience with my last water 'pour' that nearly ruined an entire module that I'm a natural skeptic.

Back in the 70's I did the Hickory Valley log pond with that two-part clear stuff used to make paperweights - only about 1/4" deep, and it worked unbelievably well.   40+ years later it still looks good and was hard as diamonds.    So when I had my next one to do, I tried to find the same stuff.  'Looked to be' Michaels Castin' Craft clear epoxy, and after mixing and pouring $50 worth of the stuff it looked great, although the smell did everything but alert the neighbors that I must be cooking something....and I don't mean dinner.  It certainly mixed and poured the same.

The pour was 34" long x 8" wide by 1/4" deep where the log pond had been about 10" x 5" x 1/4" deep.   This time, it started 'shimmering' in surface waves, then it broke loose from the bottom.    Then it cracked completely in half.   It was still somewhat soft like clear hard candy when it cools, so I simply ripped/rolled the whole thing back out, did a lot of scenery damage, but still got it out.  Major repair job on paint, plaster, detail.

That resulted in another $60 worth of Deep Pour Water on the second try, and that worked great.   We'll see how it holds up over time, but it sure looked good, didn't shrink, and didn't stink out the neighborhood either.    What this did do was make me feel like I'd dodged a bullet with completely ruining an entire module that had taken me months to build simply because I didn't understand the water material or hadn't tested it first.  Tough lesson to learn, but that's the moral - 1) test first if you can on a smaller or expendable project  2) You can never spend too much money on getting water really good, don't cheap out - right up there with not re-using rail joiners in terms of risk vs. reward. 

Deep Pour Water is some kind of two-part mix, equal portions from two bottles, and it is also noticeably exothermic as it sets, so it doesn't sound like the same stuff at all.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 04:51:14 PM by randgust »

peteski

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Re: Possible New Water Medium?
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2017, 07:12:55 PM »
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I wonder if the Deep Pour Water is similar to https://www.unrealdetails.com/ Magic Water (epoxy resin product)?
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davefoxx

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Re: Possible New Water Medium?
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2017, 07:17:39 PM »
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If I ever need to do a deep pour again, I'll stick with tried-and-true Envirotex Lite.

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peteski

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Re: Possible New Water Medium?
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2017, 08:24:17 PM »
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I feel like I should mention something here. Randy mentioned that Michaels Castin' Craft is an epoxy resin. It is not. It is a Polyester resin.  Totally different from epoxy.  Polyester resin is very smelly and more of a health hazard than epoxies.  It is also very exothermic when it is setting.  Often (due to the hardener starvation on the surface) it will remain sticky on the surface because the resin never hardens.  I would not recommend using Polyester resin for model RR water.

Epoxy resins are very different. They have much less odor and then do not suffer hardener starvation on the surface. While the hardening process is also exothermic, they set more slowly so there is less heating. Much more suitable for deep water pours.

The Magic Water and Envirotex are both epoxies.
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DeltaBravo

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Re: Possible New Water Medium?
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2017, 10:17:07 PM »
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I feel like I should mention something here. Randy mentioned that Michaels Castin' Craft is an epoxy resin. It is not. It is a Polyester resin.  Totally different from epoxy.  Polyester resin is very smelly and more of a health hazard than epoxies.  It is also very exothermic when it is setting.  Often (due to the hardener starvation on the surface) it will remain sticky on the surface because the resin never hardens.  I would not recommend using Polyester resin for model RR water.

Epoxy resins are very different. They have much less odor and then do not suffer hardener starvation on the surface. While the hardening process is also exothermic, they set more slowly so there is less heating. Much more suitable for deep water pours.

The Magic Water and Envirotex are both epoxies.

Thanks Peteski, learned something new today.
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randgust

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Re: Possible New Water Medium?
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2017, 03:05:19 PM »
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Actually Michael's has both - but the stuff I used was apparently a polyester (that's correct, Pete is right):
http://www.michaels.com/castin-craft-clear-polyester-casting-resin/M10558114.html

This is the epoxy:
http://www.michaels.com/easy-cast-clear-casting-epoxy/10408248.html?productsource=PDPZ1

I ripped out the polyester stuff when it was still a little soft, just after it cracked in half.  I saved it as a trophy to misguided modeling and even took it to Altoona to show exactly how to do water the wrong way.   Now have it leaning against the workbench.   The other night I tripped into it, it hit the floor, and the edges were actually sharp enough to cut me fairly well, at least requiring a bandage.   So one more reason....other than it shrinks, stinks and heats, it also can cause a nasty cut.

One thing I did do was to save the little bit of Deep Pour left in the bottom of the mixing cup and let it harden.   I put it on display right in front of the module with a 'TOUCH THIS SAMPLE NOT THE MODEL' sign, and it worked rather well.  Sample was covered in fingerprints and nothing was on the module.  That's one thing, it seems like everybody has to stick their finger into model water to see if it is really wet.

peteski

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Re: Possible New Water Medium?
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2017, 05:33:57 PM »
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That's one thing, it seems like everybody has to stick their finger into model water to see if it is really wet.

Wouldn't  it be *REALLY* funny if you put a thin layer of water or even oil on top of the resin "water" and let people touch it?  Imagine their surprise . . .
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