resin detail decals for latches on GP hoods ?

[scaro]

Hi

I am fiddling about with a TT scale hood and though I can get the doors right, and hinges, etc, and I can use Archer grilles, the one thing that is persistently beyond my skills is simulating the latches on EMD hood doors.  For the uninitiated, they are the little indented squares with a raised lip on the top and bottom of hood doors on GP locomotives.

I've tried stamping them in thin styrene and paper, and it looks awful. It looks like a job for 3D or etching, but I'm working in Evergreen styrene or its British equivalent, and with differing contraction rates, brass doors would probably eventually fall off (I assume from what I have seen, anyway.) 

Therefore, I was wondering if anyone makes raised resin decals for EMD door latches ? Archer don't. 

Or is there something that currently exists in the resin decal world , that would be able to be used in a small scale, to simulate them ?

regards, Ben

[Lemosteam]

Hi

I am fiddling about with a TT scale hood and though I can get the doors right, and hinges, etc, and I can use Archer grilles, the one thing that is persistently beyond my skills is simulating the latches on EMD hood doors.  For the uninitiated, they are the little indented squares with a raised lip on the top and bottom of hood doors on GP locomotives.

I've tried stamping them in thin styrene and paper, and it looks awful. It looks like a job for 3D or etching, but I'm working in Evergreen styrene or its British equivalent, and with differing contraction rates, brass doors would probably eventually fall off (I assume from what I have seen, anyway.) 

Therefore, I was wondering if anyone makes raised resin decals for EMD door latches ? Archer don't. 

Or is there something that currently exists in the resin decal world , that would be able to be used in a small scale, to simulate them ?

regards, Ben

Pic of what you are referring to would be helpful?

[wcfn100]

Plano does them in HO.




Archer will do custom sheets.  It's not cheap though.

Jason

[cjm413]

Plano does them in HO.




Archer will do custom sheets.  It's not cheap though.

Jason

If we're playing "lets torture ourselves with parts that Plano makes in HO and nobody makes in N", I'll raise you one GP35 fan hatch to fix the Atlas GP30:

http://www.planomodelproducts.com/186-l.jpg

[nkalanaga]

Depending on how many you need, Tichy Train Group custom decals might work.  As noted in a previous thread about them, the "ink" is thick enough to be felt as a raised object, so might be about right for what you want.  You get an 8.5 x 11 sheet, minus a little bit around the edges for margins, so could do a LOT of custom latches, rivets, etc. if they're thick enough.

I don't have any way of measuring them.  The lettering actually looks fine, once it's on a car, but outside, in bright sunlight, the occasional odd shadow can be seen, if one looks closely.

[scaro]

Yep, those are the latches ... things in HO which stand a snowflake's chance in the proverbial of being done in TT.   

I don't know how far they stand proud of the hood doors in real life, but it cannot be by very much.

i might consider the custom decal route as one sheet would do everything you'd need probably for a lifetime, so it may be worth taking the plunge.  Archer may consider it a handy thing to add to their line ?  So  I may ask them.

I once heard of someone harvesting overscale N ones from a shell and using them in another scale.

But that sounds fiddly and messy, even if I was very careful with the MEK. 

May be the only option, however. 

Would anyone know any N model known for having oversized ones?   

Ben S.

[peteski]

Depending on how many you need, Tichy Train Group custom decals might work.  As noted in a previous thread about them, the "ink" is thick enough to be felt as a raised object, so might be about right for what you want.  You get an 8.5 x 11 sheet, minus a little bit around the edges for margins, so could do a LOT of custom latches, rivets, etc. if they're thick enough.

I don't have any way of measuring them.  The lettering actually looks fine, once it's on a car, but outside, in bright sunlight, the occasional odd shadow can be seen, if one looks closely.

You send me a sample of your Tichy printed decals. I was going to write up an evaluation but I got side-tracked. The ink is really thick. On your samples the black ink is 0.001", wide orange stripe is 0.002" thick and the red/beige stripe is 0.003" thick.  That would definitely be thick enough to represent those latches.

[nkalanaga]

Peteski:  Thank you!  I recently received a couple sheets of all-black lettering, and thought they felt thinner than the white.  I wonder if the colors are thicker because the CYMK inks are applied over each other, instead of mixing?  Unlike thin printer's ink, I doubt that the Tichy "inks" would mix on the page.

So, the black would be 0.12 inches thick in TT, and I suspect the white is probably 0.002 inches, or 0.24 in TT.  Now all we need to know is the thickness of a prototype latch!

[peteski]

Peteski:  Thank you!  I recently received a couple sheets of all-black lettering, and thought they felt thinner than the white.  I wonder if the colors are thicker because the CYMK inks are applied over each other, instead of mixing?  Unlike thin printer's ink, I doubt that the Tichy "inks" would mix on the page.

So, the black would be 0.12 inches thick in TT, and I suspect the white is probably 0.002 inches, or 0.24 in TT.  Now all we need to know is the thickness of a prototype latch!

While your calculations are spot-on, the paint thickness on the models is way out of scale so some exaggeration of the surface details is needed for those details to remain visible under a coat of paint.

[nkalanaga]

I'll take your word for it, since you're the one with the calipers.  But wouldn't the total relief be the same, if both the main surface and the detail had the same coat of paint? 

I can see that the detail would get "fatter", due to the coat of paint on the sides, but that could probably be allowed for in the decal/etching artwork.  Since these are just a plate with a hole, making the hole a little larger should keep the final appearance the same.  Or am I missing something else?

[peteski]

I'll take your word for it, since you're the one with the calipers.  But wouldn't the total relief be the same, if both the main surface and the detail had the same coat of paint? 

I can see that the detail would get "fatter", due to the coat of paint on the sides, but that could probably be allowed for in the decal/etching artwork.  Since these are just a plate with a hole, making the hole a little larger should keep the final appearance the same.  Or am I missing something else?

Theoretically you are correct, but I thing that couple of things will happen: one is that the fillet created by the paint around the raised area would have a hiding effect on very small details like that latch. Second, paint seems to settle on the lowest surfaces and flow off very small details (so the surface around the latch will have thicker coat of paint than the surface of the latch).

[scaro]

It looks like 'fat latch syndrome' is a thing 

[nkalanaga]

"Second, paint seems to settle on the lowest surfaces and flow off very small details (so the surface around the latch will have thicker coat of paint than the surface of the latch)."

That makes sense, especially if the detail and the surface are different materials.  Hadn't thought of it that way.

[scaro]

Am now thinking that given the degree to which the latch stands proud of the hood doors is so minor, that merely drilling the holes in paper doors and scoring around the rectangular shapes of the latches may be sufficient.  Sometimes too much detail looks worse, especially in a small scale. 

I did find a way to get the rectangular holes under the traction motor (??) ducts on the walkway, but unsure if these occur on both sides of the unit.  It's a GP30.

Even that may be a step too far, as they seem just about invisible.

Regards, Ben

[JoeD]

I may be able to help you with those   stand by.

Joe

Hi

I am fiddling about with a TT scale hood and though I can get the doors right, and hinges, etc, and I can use Archer grilles, the one thing that is persistently beyond my skills is simulating the latches on EMD hood doors.  For the uninitiated, they are the little indented squares with a raised lip on the top and bottom of hood doors on GP locomotives.

I've tried stamping them in thin styrene and paper, and it looks awful. It looks like a job for 3D or etching, but I'm working in Evergreen styrene or its British equivalent, and with differing contraction rates, brass doors would probably eventually fall off (I assume from what I have seen, anyway.) 

Therefore, I was wondering if anyone makes raised resin decals for EMD door latches ? Archer don't. 

Or is there something that currently exists in the resin decal world , that would be able to be used in a small scale, to simulate them ?

regards, Ben