ESU Posts new Full Throttle Files, including UP 844

[jdcolombo]

Hi folks.

Matt Hermann has posted a bunch of new Full Throttle files on the ESU web site, including a completely new sound file for the UP FEF from his recording last year of 844.  I currently have a first-generation Tsunami in my FEF, but I might have to install a LokSound and run wires to the boiler to take advantage of the new file.  He also has re-done the Challenger sound file, but this didn't come from a recent recording.

On the diesel side, there is a new file for the ALCo 251E 16-cylinder, recorded from an actual MLW locomotive with that prime mover.  The folks from Canada with M630's and M636's should be thrilled.  Also a new file for the Tier 4 GEVO and the EMD 710G3B 16-cylinder.

I'm still waiting for some additional steam files from the recordings Matt did last summer and this summer - including the Milwaukee 261, which I'm hoping will be a good stand-in for my Berks until he gets NKP 765 recorded.

John C.

[RBrodzinsky]

I was waiting for this file, and anxiously awaiting GS-4 #4449!

[Mark5]

Lancelot link: http://projects.esu.eu/projectoverviews/4

[tehachapifan]

Wow, quite a few new files and, in some cases, more than one choice for a given loco!

For example, it appears there are now three sound files suitable for, say, a B30-7.

[Cajonpassfan]

Soooo, I like this a lot, but a whole bunch of questions/assumptions pop up in my head....

For multiple (diesel) units, each one in a consist must have the FT feature, right?
Existing ESU decoders can be upgraded if one has the latest version of the Lokprogrammer
(or a dealer with one willing to do it)? Can one upgrade a decoder already installed in a locomotive? Why not?
The acceleration/deceleration rates can still be set independently of the HOLD feature, correct?
This could get very expensive very quickly, yes?
Otto K.

[Jbub]

Soooo, I like this a lot, but a whole bunch of questions/assumptions pop up in my head....

For multiple (diesel) units, each one in a consist must have the FT feature, right?
Existing ESU decoders can be upgraded if one has the latest version of the Lokprogrammer
(or a dealer with one willing to do it)? Can one upgrade a decoder already installed in a locomotive? Why not?
The acceleration/deceleration rates can still be set independently of the HOLD feature, correct?
This could get very expensive very quickly, yes?
Otto K.

Yes, each locomotive needs to have a loksound decoder with ft feature for a consist to work. And the look programmer works through the track

[Nick Lorusso]

Yes, each locomotive needs to have a loksound decoder with ft feature for a consist to work. And the look programmer works through the track

Also need to be advanced consisted using CV19

[jdcolombo]

Soooo, I like this a lot, but a whole bunch of questions/assumptions pop up in my head....

For multiple (diesel) units, each one in a consist must have the FT feature, right?
Existing ESU decoders can be upgraded if one has the latest version of the Lokprogrammer
(or a dealer with one willing to do it)? Can one upgrade a decoder already installed in a locomotive? Why not?
The acceleration/deceleration rates can still be set independently of the HOLD feature, correct?
This could get very expensive very quickly, yes?
Otto K.

Hi Otto.

In order to use the Full Throttle features (particularly Drive Hold), each locomotive in a consist must have either a LokSound decoder or a LokPilot v.4, which now has new firmware that also implements Drive Hold (but not the Independent Brake).

Old sound files can be updated via a LokProgrammer.  The LokProgrammer will also update the firmware of the decoder to the latest version, and then install the new sound file.  Yes, all this can be done with the decoder in the locomotive - you just put the loco on a programming track attached to the LokProgrammer (I use a piece of Kato Unitrack wired to the LokProgrammer for all this).

I'm not sure what you are asking about when you ask about acceleration/deceleration rates.  If you are talking about momentum settings, yes, they are independent of any of the Full Throttle functions.  The way Drive Hold works is that when you engage Drive Hold, the decoder holds the current speed constant (you cannot change the speed with your throttle knob), and the throttle knob now controls just the notch up/notch down of the decoder.  When you disengage drive hold, the locomotive will automatically accelerate/decelerate to match the notch sound.

For example, when I am moving a train out of the yard, I engage Drive Hold, use the throttle knob to rev the engine up to notch 3, then release drive hold.  The train will then accelerate to match the throttle setting.   If you have grades on your layout, you can set your throttle so that the engines are crawling upgrade at, say, 10 smph.  Then you engage drive hold, and turn the throttle knob all the way up to get Run8.  The engines will stay at crawling speed, but the prime movers will be screaming in Run8, just like the prototype.  When you crest the grade, you can disengage Drive Hold and engage the "Coast" button (you will have to program "Coast" to one of the function keys).  This will drop the prime mover sound to idle, but give you speed control back on the throttle, so you can gradually increase speed as you are going downgrade (you can also engage the dynamics, which also affects speed by acting as a sort of brake - I think engaging the dynamics cuts the speed in half, but since the NKP didn't have any units with dynamic brakes, I've never used this function).  When the train levels off, you disengage "Coast" and the engine will automatically throttle up so that the sound matches the current track speed.

This is actually all pretty nifty once you get the hang of it, and allows for much more prototypical operation than just relying on the decoder to notch the sound up and down with the speed of the engine.  In theory, you can also do this with manual notching, but that is very cumbersome (because once you engage manual notching, you cannot disengage it and go back to "automatic" until you notch down to idle and have the train stop).  Drive Hold, Coast, and Run 8 are very handy for simulating real operations (I confess that I don't use the Independent Brake much).  All these things, however, work best with large amounts of momentum programmed in - I use 100 in both CV3 (forward momentum) and CV4 (reverse momentum).  Even that is not enough in some situations - I'm still experimenting.

To do this in a consist, however, requires that you either use Advanced Consisting (not Digitrax's Universal Consisting) with CV's 21 and 22 properly set so that each unit in the consist will respond to whatever function keys you have assigned to Drive Hold (default F9), Independent Brake (default F10), Coast (no default function key; you have to program one for this); and Run8 (also no default function key; you have to program one for this, too).  The other way to do it is to create a "hard" consist by using the same DCC address for every unit.  This in turn will require you to set any units that are running backwards up for reverse running in CV29.  It also likely will require changing the way the headlights operate on the rear and any middle units.   The "hard consist" method is what I use and I program my middle units so that the headlights never turn on (F0 doesn't turn on the lights on them) and program the rear unit so that the headlight comes on only when that unit is running in the forward direction (e.g., if you cut the consist off the train and are running the consist in reverse).  The "hard consist" approach works very well as long as you don't break up consists during the course of operations (I don't).  But if you have helper service, in which you "nest" consists during a helper run, the hard consist approach doesn't work very well.  Actually, neither does Advanced Consisting with Digitrax - in order to break up an advanced consist with a Digitrax system, you have to manually program CV19 to zero in your consisted units.  You can do this via Ops Mode (programming on the main), but it is still a royal pain.  Only the NCE system makes this truly easy to do.

And yes, it does get expensive.  I run my diesels in 3-unit sets.  I started out with only one unit having sound.  Now I have two of the 3 with sound, and the third has a LokPilot V.4.   I have 40 active diesels on my layout.  You do the math. 

John C.

[Kentuckian]

Lancelot link: http://projects.esu.eu/projectoverviews/4

Secret chimp?

[Cajonpassfan]

Hello John C.,
and thank you very much for your thoughtful and informative reply. Appreciated!

You did answer my questions about acceleration/deceleration rates; I too like to use lots of momentum and the hold/coast/brake features sound great. Charging up Cajon with a freight in Run 8 at 15 mph also appeals to me. And I do like using brakes, squeal and all... It takes practice to learn and master, but so did the real thing

Most of my road diesels are first generation sets (ABBA, ABB, ABA) and most are in a "hard" consist. Seems easier that way and less prone to malfunction, though less flexible. I haven't yet decided whether to keep it that way, but the FT decoders may push me in that direction.

With steam, I assume the FT functions differently in HOLD in that the chuff frequency must remain constant in relation to driver revolutions, but the chuff sharpness and volume varies with the throttle setting? I noticed in Matt's demonstration video the chuff and driver rotations are way out of whack....and that would kill it for me. I do hope that's something that can be adjusted....

Thanks again, fun stuff!
Otto K.

[jdcolombo]

With steam, I assume the FT functions differently in HOLD in that the chuff frequency must remain constant in relation to driver revolutions, but the chuff sharpness and volume varies with the throttle setting? I noticed in Matt's demonstration video the chuff and driver rotations are way out of whack....and that would kill it for me. I do hope that's something that can be adjusted....

Thanks again, fun stuff!
Otto K.

Hi Otto.

Correct.  With steam, Drive Hold can do 2 things.  First, it can hold speed constant, and you use the throttle to adjust the loudness and intensity of the chuffs.  The chuff rate doesn't change, just the loudness and "bark."   You can also set Drive Hold in a steam file to act as a sort of "chuff loudness switch" - that is, you can set up Drive Hold so that it does NOT hold speed constant, but instead simply increases the chuff volume and bark by a set amount over what would be normal.  I use it this way - I've set up Drive Hold to increase the chuff loudness and bark when I press F9, but still give me speed control.  That way, I can have really loud chuffs when I'm moving a train out of the yard, but I can adjust the speed however I want. 

I think that Matt simply didn't have the chuff rate synced to driver rotation on the video.  You do this using CV57 and CV58.  You first set CV57 so that the chuffs properly sync at speed step 1; then you open the throttle to about 15-20%, and adjust CV58 to get the chuffs in sync at that speed.  When you are done, the chuffs will be almost perfectly synced with driver rotation all all speeds.  Drive Hold doesn't affect this at all.

John C.

[skytop35]

Will the LokPilot v4 Micro work with the full throttle features?

[RBrodzinsky]

Will the LokPilot v4 Micro work with the full throttle features?

Yes, works quite well. Have these in four of my B units, and the consists run perfectly

[jdcolombo]

Will the LokPilot v4 Micro work with the full throttle features?

The LokPilot V.4 supports Drive Hold, but I don't think it supports Independent Brake.  Run8 and Coast are irrelevant to the LokPilot, since those affect sound only (not speed).

That said, my consists with two LokSounds and one LokPilot work great.  But I never use the Independent Brake feature.

John C.

[BCR 570]

On the diesel side, there is a new file for the ALCo 251E 16-cylinder, recorded from an actual MLW locomotive with that prime mover.  The folks from Canada with M630's and M636's should be thrilled.

Oh yeah!  I wonder if the new M-630 sound file can be uploaded into my three M-630s currently on Dave's workbench - the decoders date from 2014.


Tim