Rapido N Turbo Train schemes and prices

[High Hood]

I imagine that the comment about smooth sides was figurative and not literal, as smooth side passenger cars are a wasteland in N scale.

I am grateful for the Rapido smooth-sides (I have a few for PM stand-ins). The only smooth-side cars in N scale I can think of with flush windows are the Kato, Walthers (Walthers killed their N passenger line), and Rapido. All of the other makers have non-flush windows which is a fail for me.

Mark

I really wish Walthers would bring back their passenger line.  Walthers' cars are getting pretty hard to find these days.

[thomasjmdavis]

I imagine that the comment about smooth sides was figurative and not literal, as smooth side passenger cars are a wasteland in N scale.

I am grateful for the Rapido smooth-sides (I have a few for PM stand-ins). The only smooth-side cars in N scale I can think of with flush windows are the Kato, Walthers (Walthers killed their N passenger line), and Rapido. All of the other makers have non-flush windows which is a fail for me.

Mark

I am also grateful for Rapido cars- most of the prototypes are unique to them- nobody else makes accurate CN cars.  Looking at smoothside cars only, I have more Rapido than Kato (and just a few of anything else).  And I found 4 Rapido "chassis" (interior, floor, underframe and trucks) on eBay at a reasonable price- that will be used with Athabasca sides (although if @rapidotrains has some coach bodies in CN 1954 paint on a dusty shelf someplace, let me know). I may buy one or two more baggage cars if the retirement fund check gets here before they run out.  I could use a couple more CN coaches as well- but those have become very rare.  The point I am trying to make is that if Rapido had made more, I would have bought more.  And I still wish they had made the "Green" sleepers, which were the most common sleeper on the CN/GTW Toronto-Chicago trains, but someday I will make my own and in the meanwhile, several of those Katos listed above are 6-6-4s I painted as stand ins.

"I really wish Walthers would bring back their passenger line.  Walthers' cars are getting pretty hard to find these days." (High Hood)

Do you think they might be willing to sell the tooling (assuming they still have the tooling)? And would it fit any injection molding equipment other than the Chinese factory that turned them out?  Semi-serious here, I need a small business to run in retirement.  Still trying to figure out why they expected to sell 2000 ATSF PS 10-6s when ATSF owned ACF and Budd 10-6s, both of which were already being manufactured by Kato.  Of course, they did produce the 10-6 in accurate roads as well, but still...  The other big error was not printing names and numbers on most of the cars, and then doing the unnumbered cars with decal sheets as well, for those of us who like that sort of thing- but I have met folks over the years who did NOT buy them because they did not want the hassle of decaling and then having to seal the decals (which you could not spray unless you disassembled the car first).  A ready to run car that wasn't ready.  MT made the same mistake with their early Pullman sleepers, and did not even include a decal sheet for the names.  But luckily for all of us, MT had a long term commitment to HW passenger cars.

 My only other complaint with the Walthers cars is that they seemed to bump each other off the rails on curves on my layout (15" min rad) while no other cars had an issue.  I am guessing I could have fixed it with a longer coupler, but never got round to it before dismantling the layout. If I had paid retail for them, I would have been upset, but I got them all on sale for 60% off.

[rapidotrains]

Your second statement is what I was hoping for, unique models but with the level of detail and price similar to Kato or MTL.

Well, we sort of agree... 

We can't bring out models at the same prices as Kato. Even if we simplified our models, there is just no way. Their production facilities are about 100 times the size of ours (not an exaggeration) and they can produce models much more cheaply than we can. But we have no interest in simplifying our models.

We're still going to aim for super detail, as we believe that there is a market for it even in N scale. What I was saying was there is no market for a super-detailed model that is similar to an existing model from another manufacturer.

When we attempted to simplify our HO models for the "Prime Movers" line, we realized it was a mistake. We sold slightly more models than we would have, but our margins were so tight as to make it a wash. And we had a lot more complaints that we had dumbed down the models than kudos for offering a less expensive model. So our Dash 8 is our first and last Prime Movers locomotive in HO.

-Jason

[wmcbride]

Well, we sort of agree... 

We can't bring out models at the same prices as Kato. Even if we simplified our models, there is just no way. Their production facilities are about 100 times the size of ours (not an exaggeration) and they can produce models much more cheaply than we can. But we have no interest in simplifying our models.

We're still going to aim for super detail, as we believe that there is a market for it even in N scale. What I was saying was there is no market for a super-detailed model that is similar to an existing model from another manufacturer.

When we attempted to simplify our HO models for the "Prime Movers" line, we realized it was a mistake. We sold slightly more models than we would have, but our margins were so tight as to make it a wash. And we had a lot more complaints that we had dumbed down the models than kudos for offering a less expensive model. So our Dash 8 is our first and last Prime Movers locomotive in HO.

-Jason

So those Prime Mover Dash 8's will be collector's items? Now that is getting like Kadee/Micro-Trains ... 

[CBQ Fan]

Many circuses used truss rodded vintage passenger cars all the way into the 50's . I would be into that . I imagine some made their way into MOW , either as as built or converted into crane boom cars . I would be into those as well . Unlettered cars would be great .
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Passenger_car_GN_3261_20041010.jpg
I am a bit scared though after the wood refers with what I think were too groovy . hmmm the " Young Rascals " comes to mind .

Here is a unique passenger car market that is underserved in n scale. These wooden cars were works of art which lines up with your level of detail.not competing with any one else also.

[PGE-N°2]

I've been thinking about the Turbo Train for a while, and I'm seriously considering ordering a train, but I am deeply curious about how well they would track on the rails.

Currently, the only way I'd have to run one is on a modular setup, which would likely not have fine tuned track and perfectly aligned joints. However, I am encouraged by the reliable running of the GMD1's on a standard Ntrak layout.

[rapidotrains]

I've been thinking about the Turbo Train for a while, and I'm seriously considering ordering a train, but I am deeply curious about how well they would track on the rails.

Currently, the only way I'd have to run one is on a modular setup, which would likely not have fine tuned track and perfectly aligned joints. However, I am encouraged by the reliable running of the GMD1's on a standard Ntrak layout.

The HO Turbo, when it runs at all, actually tracks extremely well. The short bodies and guided single axles make it quite forgiving of less-than-perfect trackwork. If it derails, it's because there is so much @$%^ drag on those poorly-designed trucks that you need 40LB of torque to move an inch.

So... as we have since learned how to make a train that actually runs, I am pretty confident the N Turbo will track OK.

-Jason

[pdx1955]

We need to focus in N on models, like the Turbo, that have no competition. And that is I think where our N scale product line is heading. That means moving away from smooth-side passenger cars and focusing on more unique models.

There's lots of places you can go in N that are not being touched by other manufacturers (Baldwins, wooden passenger cars , electrics that are not a GG1, Canadian freight cars, etc ...but I don't want to get too off-topic ) ). Before you abandon the smooth-side passenger cars you should do a dome car that you can paint up in multiple roadnames, so those of us with Centrailia, Walthers, and Rapido NCL cars can complete their trains!

[PGE-N°2]

The HO Turbo, when it runs at all, actually tracks extremely well. The short bodies and guided single axles make it quite forgiving of less-than-perfect trackwork. If it derails, it's because there is so much @$%^ drag on those poorly-designed trucks that you need 40LB of torque to move an inch.

So... as we have since learned how to make a train that actually runs, I am pretty confident the N Turbo will track OK.

-Jason

You may have just convinced me,  .

[Cajonpassfan]

Jason,

I really appreciate how open and honest you are with the model railroad cummunity. It helps me understand the logic that goes into your business decisions, from the choice of products you bring to market to the need to rely on the dreaded preorder business model. If your customers understand your reality, it helps remove the nagging feeling that you and your crew must be miserable, heartless robber barons because you won't produce this or that model, and insist that I preorder...

Your online presence is excellent, and your videos and delightful and informative. Your products are outstanding.

Now, about that Canadian... There was .......

But enough unrestrained begging. How about a minibox? Or a wood 'van'?

Love your spirit Rapido, including your commitment to 1:1 scale preservation.

Geoff

I second the above. Thank you Rapido! It's rare to get manufacturers to engage at this level, and I for one truly appreciate it, and clearly, there are others here as well. Thank you very much, Jason, your N scale models are awesome and (selfishly) I wish you great success in the N scale market.

Having said that, the Railwire membership is (unfortunately) hardly reflective of the typical N scale buyer, and so one needs to filter the comments here, including mine, with a touch of real world marketing reality. But, for the most part, we are a bunch guys who are serious and passionate about this hobby, and for the most part, pretty knowledgeable.

Now, some thoughts about the differences in marketing N scale. Forgive me if I state the obvious, but sometimes the obvious isn't so obvious to everyone...  In  my humble opinion, most HO-centric guys just don't get N scale. It's NOT a just a smaller version of HO, it's not "about half the size" of HO (and perhaps half as good ) It's not about competing in detail, but in volume. In our three dimensional miniature world, which is what our three dimensional layouts and trains are, the models are over SEVEN times smaller, and to take advantage of that small a scale, one shouldn't think of just shrinking HO. In a side by side tabletop context, an N scale engine will never look as good as an equivalent HO model next to it, even if it looks damn good. But, side by side, a ten foot N scale train next to a ten foot HO one in a well done layout setting might look more like the real thing (unless one is modeling a branch line; not that there's anything wrong with that ) It might look better because the power is good looking multiple units instead of one or two, and there are almost twice as many good looking cars, so the train looks like the real thing. Twelve of fifteen car HO "mainline" freights, I don't care how well detailed, pulled by huge locomotives always look silly to me. And this presents an opportunity to sell more N scale cars and locos; there maybe fewer of us, but we need more stuff. Perhaps that's why outfits like Bluford and Intermountain can sell tons of hoppers and reefers that tend to run in multiples; the money is in selling volume, and while good detail is important, things like fine underbody detail becomes less so in that context.

In this and any other business, money can be made on a very fine product sold to a select few at very substantial margins, or a decent product at smaller margins in a large volume. There should be room inbetwen for Rapido to position its high quality N scale product line to reach a great proportion of N scale modelers, with some compromises being made; not every car needs to be a contest quality product, and smart decisions need to be made about expensive details in the "whole train" context.

Well, just food for N scale thought for whatever it's worth.
A set of FA's, ones or two's, could be the next product, targeted at US audiences, where the markets are...
Regards, Otto K.

[CBQ Fan]

I second the above. Thank you Rapido! It's rare to get manufacturers to engage at this level, and I for one truly appreciate it, and clearly, there are others here as well. Thank you very much, Jason, your N scale models are awesome and (selfishly) I wish you great success in the N scale market.

Having said that, the Railwire membership is (unfortunately) hardly reflective of the typical N scale buyer, and so one needs to filter the comments here, including mine, with a touch of real world marketing reality. But, for the most part, we are a bunch guys who are serious and passionate about this hobby, and for the most part, pretty knowledgeable.

Now, some thoughts about the differences in marketing N scale. Forgive me if I state the obvious, but sometimes the obvious isn't so obvious to everyone...  In  my humble opinion, most HO-centric guys just don't get N scale. It's NOT a just a smaller version of HO, it's not "about half the size" of HO (and perhaps half as good ) It's not about competing in detail, but in volume. In our three dimensional miniature world, which is what our three dimensional layouts and trains are, the models are over SEVEN times smaller, and to take advantage of that small a scale, one shouldn't think of just shrinking HO. In a side by side tabletop context, an N scale engine will never look as good as an equivalent HO model next to it, even if it looks damn good. But, side by side, a ten foot N scale train next to a ten foot HO one in a well done layout setting might look more like the real thing (unless one is modeling a branch line; not that there's anything wrong with that ) It might look better because the power is good looking multiple units instead of one or two, and there are almost twice as many good looking cars, so the train looks like the real thing. Twelve of fifteen car HO "mainline" freights, I don't care how well detailed, pulled by huge locomotives always look silly to me. And this presents an opportunity to sell more N scale cars and locos; there maybe fewer of us, but we need more stuff. Perhaps that's why outfits like Bluford and Intermountain can sell tons of hoppers and reefers that tend to run in multiples; the money is in selling volume, and while good detail is important, things like fine underbody detail becomes less so in that context.

In this and any other business, money can be made on a very fine product sold to a select few at very substantial margins, or a decent product at smaller margins in a large volume. There should be room inbetwen for Rapido to position its high quality N scale product line to reach a great proportion of N scale modelers, with some compromises being made; not every car needs to be a contest quality product, and smart decisions need to be made about expensive details in the "whole train" context.

Well, just food for N scale thought for whatever it's worth.
A set of FA's, ones or two's, could be the next product, targeted at US audiences, where the markets are...
Regards, Otto K.

This is one of the things i enjoy most about nscale. I could never model as many passenger trains in HO as I can in nscale. Size, cost, etc.

[leedabsme74]

New Passenger Car Suggestion for Rapido:

SP Triple Diner for the Lark.  It would have the two tone grey scheme.  It is different than the Daylight Triple Diner in that the kitchen/bunk rooms are on the end and not the middle.

[rapidotrains]

Well, just food for N scale thought for whatever it's worth.
A set of FA's, ones or two's, could be the next product, targeted at US audiences, where the markets are...
Regards, Otto K.

It's worth a lot - thanks, Otto.

The challenge we have is that we have built our reputation in HO by making absurdly detailed models of oddballs. It's how we managed to get a name for ourselves in a crowded market.

The Turbo model should build our reputation in N (provided it runs this time.... ), and then we'll see where we go from there. I have some ideas....

Thanks again,

Jason

[eric220]

There's lots of places you can go in N that are not being touched by other manufacturers (electrics that are not a GG1)

Yeah, there's the P5, L5, DD1, just to start.

 

If you want oddballs, I'll second the baldwins. The sharks need a good prototypical version that actually runs well, and I'd love to see passenger sharks and an AS-616.

[Englewood]

The Southern Pacific's 3/4 dome cars were oddballs!
Just let me know when I can reserve them.