Author Topic: Assembling pewter models  (Read 1793 times)

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C855B

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Re: Assembling pewter models
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2017, 07:57:23 AM »
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... Maybe you just got unlucky and bought some old bottles? ...

A good possibility, tho' it happened twice. Burn me once, etc. It could be explained by the ordering quantities necessary for the custom imprint resulting in old stock in shops lacking enough traffic to rotate it sufficiently. I'll still stick [hah!] with what I know works well for me.
...mike

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"I used to blame the dryer for shrinking my clothes. But then I found out it was the refrigerator."

nscaleSPF2

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Re: Assembling pewter models
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2017, 07:58:54 AM »
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There is another way to extend the shelf life of CA if you don't want to keep it in the freezer.  I keep mine in a hermetically sealed  ;) mason jar on the workbench.  I only take the bottle out when I'm about to use it.  It lasts about 1 year before it starts to thicken and I have to throw it out.  I have been told that the moisture in the air is the cause of the thickening.  Don't know for sure if this is true, but I'm going with it for now.

The other point not mentioned so far is that the CA bond will continue to strengthen over the first 24 hours.  It will set up within seconds, of course, but I don't handle a critical joint for 24 hours.  Have never tried an accelerant to find out what effect it might have.

I used CA exclusively to build a GHQ locomotive conversion kit (PRR L1), among tons of other stuff.
Jim Hale

Trying to re-create a part of south-central Pennsylvania in 1956, one small bit at a time.

prbharris

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Re: Assembling pewter models
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2017, 09:50:51 AM »
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This is a kit from England
   :) Thanks!
Quote
to make a five unit well car set. Since it will be running on track in a train, I want a set that will not pull apart while in a train.

Notwithstanding all the above comments and suggestions, there have been very few examples of the N Scale Kits coming apart in consists - even ones run at a local club with over 100 cars behind a lead N Scale Kits double stack consist. Although the double stack cars do not have an integral spine that forces are transmitted directly through, there are four joins of the cars ends to the side sills, and joins with the deck floor. These joins are fairly long, so that capillary action will take the CA glue along the joint. This will give a good join with significant strength.

Yes, the shear strength of CA glue is not good, however, this should not be any problem at all when in use - but only if very badly mishandled. However, some modelers have had good success with epoxy glue - especially when the cars are held in a jig. Soldering using a very low melt solder is possible, but I have not used this method.

I hope that the build goes well, Marty.

Peter

Peter Harris
N Scale Kits
www.nscalekits.com

peteski

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Re: Assembling pewter models
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2017, 11:03:09 AM »
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A related question to using CA glue. Should I use accelerant or let it dry naturally? I know CA dries fast but an accelerant would mean less time holding or bracing. But will that weaken the joint?

Yes, from what I've read, glue joints set with accelerator will be weaker (and more brittle) than naturally hardened. But in my experience and unscientific observations  that also varies depending on the accelerator type and on how it is applied.  The very aggressive accelerators produce brittle joints. Also if accelerator is applied to the surface before applying glue, that results in weaker joint.   That is why I prefer the less-aggressive BSI accelerator and apply it (with a micro-brush, never spray it) after the glue is applied to the joint.

And for a pedantic comment, CA glue does not dry (it is not a solvent-based glue). It hardens by chemical reaction which commences when glue is placed between two surfaces. Moisture will also trigger the reaction, so if left on the open air it might appear to dry (but it is really the moisture in the ambient air which will trigger its hardening).  That moisture is also the cause of premature hardening in the bottle. If the air inside the bottle was kept moisture-free then the CA glue would not harden for a very long time.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 11:40:07 AM by peteski »
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C855B

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Re: Assembling pewter models
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2017, 11:15:21 AM »
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... (it i{s} snot...

Clearly, this explains the issues I have had.

   :trollface:   :facepalm:
...mike

http://www.railfancentralia.com
http://www.gibboncozadandwestern.com

"I used to blame the dryer for shrinking my clothes. But then I found out it was the refrigerator."

peteski

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Re: Assembling pewter models
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2017, 11:40:50 AM »
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Clearly, this explains the issues I have had.

   :trollface:   :facepalm:

LOL! Ifixedit.  :D
--- Peteski de Snarkski

MK

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Re: Assembling pewter models
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2017, 12:25:33 PM »
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CA accelerant will weaken the joint but not to the point where it will affect how you use it.

I fly R/C airplanes and helicopters and CA is our bread and butter.  I personally use it on 3 meter winch launch gliders and I don't think twice about it's effectiveness or strength.  You should only use accelerant if you really have to, e.g., odd positioning of the parts or you are bonding very porous materials like foam (use foam safe CA for that!).

Moisture in the air will slowly cure the CA thus my freezer comment and someone else's comment an a hermetically sealed mason jar.  Freezer, or very cold air in a fridge has very little moisture.  But what really kicks off CA naturally is the lack of oxygen.  So if two parts are smooth and non-porous, CA kicks really well.  But try wood, especially end grains, it will kick slower and you need to hold it together for more seconds.  Try two pieces of foam and it will never kick.  :)  That's where accelerant comes in.  CA on one side of the foam and accelerant on the other side, both being the foam safe type otherwise they will burn a hole on your foam.  (Note: EPS and EPP foam are CA safe so you don't need foam safe CA for them.)  Foam safe CA and kicker command a premium in price and they go bad quicker.

MK

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Re: Assembling pewter models
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2017, 12:30:16 PM »
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A good possibility, tho' it happened twice. Burn me once, etc. It could be explained by the ordering quantities necessary for the custom imprint resulting in old stock in shops lacking enough traffic to rotate it sufficiently. I'll still stick [hah!] with what I know works well for me.

That's probably what happened.  It sat on the shelf for awhile.  I always buy mine from mail order hobby places where I know they move a lot of stock (e.g., Tower Hobbies) and not from LHS unless it's a very active LHS that sells R/C stuff.  We go through CA like it's water.  :)  I don't see MRR guys use that much of the stuff.

peteski

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Re: Assembling pewter models
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2017, 05:38:11 PM »
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A good possibility, tho' it happened twice. Burn me once, etc. It could be explained by the ordering quantities necessary for the custom imprint resulting in old stock in shops lacking enough traffic to rotate it sufficiently.

While it doesn't explain the stale glue, the imprint is not really an imprint.  All the ones I have seen are simply transparent address labels with the hobby shop into printed on a laser printer, then applied over the blank area of the bottle label.  If I remember next time I go to the hobby shop to ask whether they get their BSI adhesives with blank label then they stick their hobby info label at the store, or whether BSI provides that as a service.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 07:25:59 PM by peteski »
--- Peteski de Snarkski

MK

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Re: Assembling pewter models
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2017, 06:36:42 PM »
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Pete, your experience with BSI and LHS labeling is the same as mine.  And I go to a lot of RC events and all the LHS one are labeled as such.

Catt

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Re: Assembling pewter models
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2017, 08:25:11 PM »
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I have several sets of Alan Curtis's articulated spine cars that were done many moons ago.I used hobbyshop CA to assemble them.Except for two cars that went off the edge of flat earth they are all holding up very well. If you don't know who Alan Curtis is ,his company was called AC Models and Peter is now carrying on with Alan's kits as well as expanding the line rather nicely.  :D

The only complaint I have about Peter is he did not buy Alan's line of Z scale models and now they are  lost because the idiot who did by them (another Michigan native at that :( ) apparently no longer has them them or has them stashed away in some dark corner of his basement somewhere.
Johnathan (Catt) Edwards
Sole owner of the
Grande Valley Railway
100% Michigan made

atsf3751

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Re: Assembling pewter models
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2017, 12:01:12 AM »
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I had bought a couple of Alan's kits a number of years ago but never got around to building them. Sold them instead, guess I need to go look at the new offerings. :)
Marty Young
San Diego, CA

nkalanaga

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Re: Assembling pewter models
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2017, 02:00:25 AM »
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"In general, cyanoacrylate is an acrylic resin that rapidly polymerises in the presence of water (specifically hydroxide ions), forming long, strong chains, joining the bonded surfaces together. Because the presence of moisture causes the glue to set, exposure to normal levels of humidity in the air causes a thin skin to start to form within seconds, which very greatly slows the reaction. Because of this cyanoacrylate is applied thinly, to ensure that the reaction proceeds rapidly for bonding."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate

"Cyanoacrylates include methyl 2-cyanoacrylate, ethyl-2-cyanoacrylate (commonly sold under trade names such as "Super Glue" and "Krazy Glue"), n-butyl cyanoacrylate and 2-octyl cyanoacrylate (used in medical, veterinary and first aid applications). Octyl cyanoacrylate was developed to address toxicity concerns and to reduce skin irritation and allergic response. Cyanoacrylate adhesives are sometimes known generically as instant glues, power glues or superglues (although "Super Glue" is a trade name).[1] The abbreviation "CA" is commonly used for industrial grades."

I cut my finger at work a couple months back, and they glued it back together.  A rather nasty cut, although not deep enough to do any permanent damage, and the glue, with a gauze/tape wrapping for protection, was enough for me to go back to work.  It healed fine, no scar, and my doctor, at an already scheduled visit a few days later, said the repair looked fine.

On a modeling note, I used to use it as filler for balsa, to make tank ends.  Jam a brass tube into the end of a block of balsa, with the grain, cut the plug off flush, push it back out a little to form the rounded end.  Then, saturate the wood with CA, and drop it in a bowl of water.  Holding it isn't a good idea, because it gets uncomfortably hot, and sets like rock.  File and sand to shape, and it's as smooth as any plastic end.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 02:03:55 AM by nkalanaga »
N Kalanaga
Be well

prbharris

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Re: Assembling pewter models
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2017, 04:00:43 AM »
+1
If you don't know who Alan Curtis is ,his company was called AC Models and Peter is now carrying on with Alan's kits as well as expanding the line rather nicely.  :D

Thank you :)

Quote
The only complaint I have about Peter is he did not buy Alan's line of Z scale models and now they are  lost

Well I am sure that there are other complaints - but I do and will try to resolve them as soon as I can!

Sadly - the Z line was already sold before I got to hear of Alan's retirement and sale. Although I have many of the Z patterns, I did promise Alan not to market them. I have not got the details of who has the Z line items now - but if folk know who I should contact [by PM please to keep this TRW thead clear of the mods!] I will contact them to see what can be done by mutual agreement - as it is now 10 years since N Scale Kits took over Alan's AC Models.

Peter

Peter Harris
N Scale Kits
www.nscalekits.com
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 06:05:15 AM by prbharris »

Catt

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Re: Assembling pewter models
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2017, 10:54:20 AM »
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I have been trying to locate this individual with no luck for the last few years.All I can tell you is he is/was in Brighton,Michigan.

Question ,for you.You have the patterns right? If Alan gave you permission would you produce the kits?
Johnathan (Catt) Edwards
Sole owner of the
Grande Valley Railway
100% Michigan made