KATO GS-4 "New Release"

[carlso]

Does anybody have any observations or comments regarding the new GS-4 other than "it looks nice" ? ?

Carl

[peteski]

Does anybody have any observations or comments regarding the new GS-4 other than "it looks nice" ? ?

Carl

Let me have one and I'll do a "Peteski Tech. Review" for you.
(just kidding - I'm swamped with project).

I wonder if Spookshow (Mark) will add this model to his website?

Lastly, unless they maybe retrofitted it with the FEF3's coreless motor, I wouldn't expect it to e any different from the last run.

[carlso]

Peteski,

I called KATO USA right after this release was announced and was told by the gentleman, do not remember his name, that the only difference from their 2008 version would be the "new revised" drivers intended for the FEF and the GS-4.  He told me that KATO USA almost begged Japan to take their time and re-do the GS-4 mechanism to match the FEF. He stated to me that the USA branch was told "no way". Then he said, we in the USA will not know, for sure, what they have done until we actually have one in hand.

So based upon those comments, I see no coreless motor and a mechanism that will still have the loose bearing problem. However, call me stupid, I did purchase and have received one of the new releases, just have not had time to run analog or DCC.

I was just curious about posters on TRW because on TB there is already a person that feels that his new one shows signs of the loose bearings. My 2008 version was worked on by Max Magliaro and he found the problem quite some time ago and actually worked on mine as he put his "fix" on the #4 driver. The real problem with mine is the #2 driver needs it as well and I will do that myself and see if I can resurrect the loco.

BTW, I am not attempting, in any way, to start a flaming job against KATO. Just want to know what to look for and fix prior to running. My original 2008 version ran flawlessly for 3-4 years and quite extensively before it ever showed problems and those problems were the cracked plastic axles. The metal half shafts spun in the plastic cover, so the quartering became a problem. You have enough knowledge to know what issues came to the forefront.

As always have fun,
Carl

[mmagliaro]

To fix that bearing problem, they would have to make new bearings with larger "ears" so they don't fall in, or make a small
Delrin "U" shaped part like the ones I cobbled out of styrene to do repairs on these engines.  New bearings, I'd say don't hold your breath.   U-shaped part... maybe, but I doubt they even realize there is a problem.

[peteski]

Carl, I wasn't trying to accuse you of flaming Kato. I also keep forgetting that Kato started selling the modified GS-4 drivers at the time FEF3 was released.  And yes, I agree that the current release of this model will undoubtedly include the "improved" drivers.  As for the bearing problem I now do recall Max's thread about it and the U-shaped fix he came up with. 

Without looking for Max's thread, aren't the new GS-4 bearings the same a used on FEF3?  If yes then judging by the lack of complaints, the FEF3 doesn't seem to have a problem with them.

Max's fix was a workaround. I think to really fix the problem Kato would have to have reworked the diecast frames to have tighter tolerance around the bearings, or like Max said: make new bearings. I also doubt that Kato has done either. But I'm also curious what, and if anything, has been done to address the loose driver bearings.

[Mark5]

Peteski,

I called KATO USA right after this release was announced and was told by the gentleman, do not remember his name, that the only difference from their 2008 version would be the "new revised" drivers intended for the FEF and the GS-4.  He told me that KATO USA almost begged Japan to take their time and re-do the GS-4 mechanism to match the FEF. He stated to me that the USA branch was told "no way".

Pity. I would be all over this loco if Kato went coreless and fixed the bearing issue.

[nscaler711]

I have a new release one, i am not sure about the old runs, but this one runs really smooth.
It also seems to creep well also, i am using a standard kato DC throttle.
If i had the BNSF version id be more than happy to ship it off to someone to do a full review.. but i bought a Daylight... yeah sorry guys not going to take one for the team these flew off the shelves on MTS that and its too pretty!!!
It has Mars light like effect, it blinks... kinda like the "strobes" on the old DDA40Xs from Bachmann... 

I know it will pull the full Morning Daylight consist, 18 cars, as i had 20+ Superliners being pulled...
it does have a traction tire... (still not a fan, makes it difficult to clean the wheels with my method i.e. Paper towel soaked in 70% alcohol and have the wheels spin)

I cant review this properly, i have only had 3 steamers in N... this beats the crap out of the two Bmanns... 2-6-2 and  4-8-4...

[peteski]

it does have a traction tire... (still not a fan, makes it difficult to clean the wheels with my method i.e. Paper towel soaked in 70% alcohol and have the wheels spin)

Yeah, all Kato locos with large diameter wheels and traction tires (GS-4, FEF3, and GG1) need to be handled carefully or they will throw the tire.  The original run GS-4 TTs were not very tightly fitting , but it seems that they redesigned them for FEF3 to fit tighter. But after seeing how roughly some people handle these models I'm not surprised about hearing complaints that TTs are coming off or broken driver axle tubes.   Be gentle with yours - no sliding of un-powered loco on the tracks. 

[nscaler711]

Yeah, all Kato locos with large diameter wheels and traction tires (GS-4, FEF3, and GG1) need to be handled carefully or they will throw the tire.  The original run GS-4 TTs were not very tightly fitting , but it seems that they redesigned them for FEF3 to fit tighter. But after seeing how roughly some people handle these models I'm not surprised about hearing complaints that TTs are coming off or broken driver axle tubes.   Be gentle with yours - no sliding of un-powered loco on the tracks. 

I wonder if i could swap out that wheel for a non traction tire wheel...

And i suppose i shouldnt run a locomotive like a diesel behind it.... even though the P42s run exceptionaly well with it...

[CBQ Fan]

I on occasion run E9's with my FEF, anyone else do this?  I run DC?

[carlso]

Peteski,

As I stated earlier, in a phone call to KATO USA their man that I spoke to told me there would be nothing different with the mechanism other than the installation of their "revised driver set" that is for FEF and GS-4. So I would say no we will not find any different bearing set up and as Max stated above, the only real fix is for KATO to re-make the bearings or re-cast the pockets for the bearings to fit properly. That is not going to happen, IMHO. So the idea of a Delrin part sounds great but most likely KATO will not do. Maybe an opportunity for an enterprising person. I can't help but feel that at some point in time, considering all of the releases of this loco, there will be or may already be quite a demand for "the fix".

Also, I was not suggesting that you were accusing me of flaming. Far from the truth, I just wanted any reader to understand that I am just voicing some frustrations. I am a dyed in the wool KATO fan but I do get frustrated at them some times and I actually think that they over engineer a product at times. I think the GS-4, original release is an example. Tough to disassemble for the first time. Be very careful.


Also- Brian I have run a KATO Ace, SP heritage and Rio Grande heritage, one at a time behind the FEF as done in the 1:1 world and they worked flawlessly. I run DCC and tweaked the speed  a very small tad on the diesels.

Always have fun,
Carl

[peteski]

I wonder if i could swap out that wheel for a non traction tire wheel...

And i suppose i shouldnt run a locomotive like a diesel behind it.... even though the P42s run exceptionaly well with it...

If you remove the TT driver (if that is even  possible) then the loco looses its pulling power - the entire mechanism is cleverly designed to give maximum traction based on that TT driver (Much more so than any other TT equipped steam loco model).  If you do that then you'll need an extra loco to pull that long passenger train.  As far as what you shoudl or shouldn't do, it is your model - you can do as you please.

To be honest, with thousands (or tens of thousands) of these and FEF3s sold by Kato, the TT is not a big problem - just treat the model gently - it is a fine N scale miniature, not some wooden toy train. It'll be fine. And even if the TT comes off (during cleaning or operation), you can easily reinstall it.

[nscaler711]

If you remove the TT driver (if that is even  possible) then the loco looses its pulling power - the entire mechanism is cleverly designed to give maximum traction based on that TT driver (Much more so than any other TT equipped steam loco model).  If you do that then you'll need an extra loco to pull that long passenger train.  As far as what you shoudl or shouldn't do, it is your model - you can do as you please.

To be honest, with thousands (or tens of thousands) of these and FEF3s sold by Kato, the TT is not a big problem - just treat the model gently - it is a fine N scale miniature, not some wooden toy train. It'll be fine. And even if the TT comes off (during cleaning or operation), you can easily reinstall it.

I get that its not a wooden train otherwise it would say Brio on the box!
But im not looking to pull a train as long as i stated earlier, probably no more than 10 cars and even then i would have a P42 behind it for a somewhat typical excursion train. But it does seem like a bigger hassle than its worth trying to remove it.
So then my next question is where should i store spare traction tires? I mean they are still rubber and we all know that rubber degrades over time...

[peteski]

I get that its not a wooden train otherwise it would say Brio on the box!
But im not looking to pull a train as long as i stated earlier, probably no more than 10 cars and even then i would have a P42 behind it for a somewhat typical excursion train. But it does seem like a bigger hassle than its worth trying to remove it.
So then my next question is where should i store spare traction tires? I mean they are still rubber and we all know that rubber degrades over time...

Replacing the TT driver with a plain one might be difficult because it is the only geared axle on that loso. If you pull the wheels off you will have to make sure that the replacement wheels are quartered properly.

Most of contemporary TTs are usually made from some sort of synthetic rubber or maybe even PVC.  The won't deteriorate like the old natural-rubber TTs did.  I usually keep them in small zippered plastic bags.  I suppose you could store them in a fridge too.