Foam roadbed?

[Kisatchie]

Oops, I see I misunderstood what was meant by foam. I was thinking of the Woodland Scenics foam strips to replace cork roadbed.


Hmm... Kiz gets it all
wrong again...

[SandyEggoJake]

I love the smell of cork roadbed in the morning.... but for hand laying track, it's no the best. 

For my new yard module, I'm leaning toward using 1/8" thick rolled cork over 25 psi OC Foamular.  (ex: https://www.bangorcork.com/products/cork-products/cork-rolls-sheets?filter_thickness=1-8-in)

But am looking at other options, including Homabed (https://cascaderailsupply.com/collections/ho-scale-45-degree-shoulder) which is precut Homesote which claims to hold spikes better.  Being precut, and used for just roadbed, it should have much less dust.  And can be custom cut with prototypical road height, shoulder bevel, transitions and super elevation.

[Loren Perry]

On my layout, I used both Woodland Scenics foam roadbed as well as Midwest cork for certain applications. Over the past eight-plus years, I've experienced absolutely no problems with either. The foam roadbed definitely absorbs noise better as I can instantly tell when a train passes from one type of roadbed to the other just by listening.

About 90% of my layout is equipped with foam roadbed.

Using my regular track-cleaning techniques have caused no problems or failures. I use a special track-cleaning train for the main lines and do manual cleaning with a Brite Boy everywhere else.

Standard ballasting techniques were used employing ballast products from Arizona Rock and Mineral, Woodland Scenics, and normal adhesives such as white glue. No ballast failures have been experienced during this time. The tracks look as good today as when I laid them eight years ago.

I used cork where I had to block-sand the roadbed down gradually until it matched the plywood table surface for yards and the roundhouse area. I also used the more rigid cork on the hinged access bridge that allows entry into the train room because the ends of the tracks had to match with great precision when the table was lowered for running.

Based on my experience, I can heartily recommend either type of roadbed. If you want to reduce the wheel noise of your trains so you can better hear the on-board sound systems, foam is the better choice.

[peteski]

Since we jumped over to the "conventional" roadbed (the subject line of this thread seems a bit confusing), I also vote against The Woodland Scenic foam roadbed.  Friend started laying the track on his layout using that roadbed but we found it way too squishy. He left the section that he laid down as-is,  but for the remainder he went to conventional cork.  That has been few years ago and we do see some deterioration (crumbling) of the ballast. I don't know if it is simply that he didn't use enough of the ballast glue or we are elephant-fisted, or both, but from that experience I would not use that stuff on a layout I was building.

Obviously Loren has a different experience.

[SPsteam]

Another option may be peel and seal aluminum flashing from lowes.  This is the same material as dynamat used in silencing auto interiors.  Using this between the roadbed and cork may reduce sound transmission.  It is an asphalt material with aluminum backing. 

[MK]

2" pink (Owens-Corning) foam, 20psi, over steel studs. No wood or fiber-based products, anywhere:



I've changed the construction method slightly in recent work, using 3/4" 20psi foam as a base and then laminating 2" semi-cookie-cutter over it for track. In a year's time it has proven bulletproof. The "20psi" is slightly important because it is less susceptible to dings and dents.

I'm definitely a non-fan of Homasote. Dusty, dirty, humidity-intolerant, plus it deteriorates. There are reasons it no longer meets building code as construction sheathing.

How did you bend the steel stud into a nice curve like that on the left????  I'm impressed!

[robert3985]

For "roadbed", Midwest Cork is best for durability, availability and being able to be SANDED so it provides a smooth, even surface on which to lay your track.  I use N-scale Midwest Cork Roadbed for branchlines, sidings and spurs, and HO-scale Midwest Cork Roadbed (sometimes just a single strip) for mainlines, and sand the interface between the two heights of cork roadbed for smooth transition.

I, and several of the local modular/sectional model railroaders here have had negative experiences with WS foam roadbed, because of ballast cracking and flaking off, and soldered electrical joints eventually fatiguing and breaking resulting from track flexing when being cleaned aggressively. 

For subroadbed, I use 3/4" plywood for yard/industrial areas and for all other subroadbed I use splined tempered Masonite subroadbed.  For strength and stability, many N-scale and HO-scale modelers in the Intermountain West (Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Nevada and Colorado) are using splined tempered Masonite as their subroadbed of choice. Yeah, I know that in really damp climates, Masonite of any kind, or even wood of any kind may give you expansion/contraction/warpage problems, but from my 30+ years of experience with it, I have had ZERO (that means "NO") problems with it when it's glued together with yellow carpenter's glue and sealed top & bottom with the same glue.  Several well-known HO scale model railroads here use it (Lee Nicholas' UCW, and Ted York's Cajon Pass come to mind).

Unlike plywood subroadbed, splined tempered Masonite subroadbed 1" splines are cut from 4X8 sheets of 1/8" or 1/4" tempered Masonite, so you get to use the whole sheet of material, minus the saw kerf, so it's much cheaper than plywood.

Tempered Masonite, being much denser than extruded Styrofoam insulation, or plywood, is also a wonderful sound deadener.  I have yard areas on my layout that are built on 3/4" plywood subroadbed plates, and trains moving on those sections are MUCH louder than those moving on the splined mainlines outside of yard limits.  I don't mean a little bit, I mean a LOT quieter running on the splined subroadbed.

Sure, it's really convenient to use 2" extruded Styrofoam for everything, including benchwork...but my experience with it building several portable layout sections has not been good, the main problems being that it's noisy, and it's difficult to really glue anything to it that will be taking stress, since the material is not structurally robust.

I build open L-girder benchwork using premium pine dimensional lumber and finished-one-side birch plywood as a lightweight, rigid and durable platform, then mount my splined subroadbed at the appropriate height using risers, gluing and screwing every joint.

After the track is in, all feeders and track related electrical components installed, all of which I can do from above the layout instead of crawling around underneath if I were building it all on a HCD or sheet of 2" Styrofoam, I fill the gaps between fascia, subroadbed and skyboard with various thicknesses of Styrofoam, the function of which is to form a lightweight scenery base.

Two caveats to what I'm doing: (1) I build my layout sections to be permanent, with no regard whatsoever concerning re-using any component such as track or turnouts.  This makes them extremely sturdy since they're portable and get transported to several shows per year.  (2) I hand-lay all of my turnouts and lay quite a bit of fragile C40 track, so it is imperative that my benchwork is SOLID and STABLE.  My traditional benchwork is that, and the splined tempered Masonite subroadbed has also been in the last 30 years of use...but, I live in an area of low humidity.

So...no subroadbed I've ever seen (or heard) is as quiet as splined tempered Masonite, and it naturally forms easements when bending the initial guide spline where you want it, making trains run more smoothly.  It is amazingly sturdy as well as easy to work with.  It's also very thrifty and efficient, and not difficult at all to build.  Properly glued and sealed, it should be just right for most climes, but I realize there are a few model railroaders who "hate" Masonite in general.  However, that's not my experience with it.

Hope this gives you something to think about and an alternative choice derived from decades of portable layout design and building.

Photo (1) - Illustrating splined tempered Masonite subroadbed, cork roadbed, L-girder benchwork, extruded Stryofoam scenery base, and use of tempered Masonite for fascia and skyboard on layout sections under construction:


Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Nato]

                  Years ago (eons) in the early days of N Gauge (now Scale) there was Mosimer (check the name) foam roadbed made in Germany. My last layout had no roadbed at first, I later lifted up the track and installed this gray foam road bed under the tracks, the roadbed for the switches just fit the Mintrix powered switches I was using at the time. It did not look half bad and on the upper level of that layout it actually provided super elevation to the 18-24 radius curves I used. No I never added ballast over the foam. My present layout has cork(mostly Atlas) on plywood, except for the rail yard (Gavin Yard) which is just a large sheet of cork contact cemented to plywood. "No Walnut Shell roadbed or wood based Woodland products".                                                         Nate Goodman (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah. 

[C855B]

How did you bend the steel stud into a nice curve like that on the left????  I'm impressed!

Here's a close-up:



It's actually a many-sided polygon. I marked every 6" with a square - you can see the marker lines - then cut both flanges at the marked points, being very careful that the end of the cut landed on the mark. That way the steel didn't bend at odd angles, both top and bottom cuts were real close to parallel. I didn't "wedge" the cuts, they're just single cuts with the cut flange edges overlapped, shingled in the same direction at every cut after curving (left side under, right side over, for instance). The foam top was the alignment guide. Once I had the general shape, cross braces were inserted to hold the circle, the adhesive* was applied and the facets then fine-tuned to match the foam edge.

* - NOT the glue in the picture. The foam is fastened to the steel with Gorilla Construction Adhesive. I tested several, and it was one of only a couple of construction adhesives that didn't attack the foam and bonded well with the steel.

[MK]

Thanks Mike!  From the earlier distance picture I couldn't have imagine that is was "sectional".  What a great idea!

[Scottl]

I've used the WS foam roadbed and I think the squishing issue is overstated.  Who does that to their track after it is ballasted?  Like Mike, I avoid natural materials to minimize humidity related issues.

One interesting advantage of the foam I discovered was that you could poke the wire from the switch machine through the foam and have a sealed surface that prevented ballast from going down the larger hole (and glue too, if you are sloppy).  It was one of those "ah hah!" moments as I was thinking about how I would fill the hole in the foam board below.

[MichaelWinicki]

I've used the WS foam roadbed and I think the squishing issue is overstated.  Who does that to their track after it is ballasted? 

LOL!

I've thought the same thing reading comments about WS foam roadbed.  I used hundreds of feet of the stuff and have never had an issue.  But then again I've never had the urge to apply as much of my 220lbs in a downward motion on a specific area of trackwork (not that it would be that easy with the lower level at 48").  If I put too much downward pressure on my DPM buildings I bet they would squish too (not that I have an urge to do that either).

[C855B]

I would be concerned after I finish upgrading most loco frames with depleted uranium for the extra traction. Why do you think my benchwork is steel?   

[MVW]

I've used the WS foam roadbed and I think the squishing issue is overstated.  Who does that to their track after it is ballasted?  Like Mike, I avoid natural materials to minimize humidity related issues.

One interesting advantage of the foam I discovered was that you could poke the wire from the switch machine through the foam and have a sealed surface that prevented ballast from going down the larger hole (and glue too, if you are sloppy).  It was one of those "ah hah!" moments as I was thinking about how I would fill the hole in the foam board below.

Agree. I've had WS foam roadbed on my home layout for nearly three years, and used it on a previous layout that I operated for 2-3 years. No problems whatsoever.

However, in regards to pink foam: I find the 2" tends to have more dips and bumps, and is generally more "unflat" than the 1". Probably has to do with how it's bundled and shipped.

Jim

[Kisatchie]

In regard to the comments about not having trouble with Woodland Scenics foam roadbed, all I can say is that I made a 1' long test strip of track and ballasted it. I managed to bump it, and sure enough the ballast cracked. Just sayin'


Hmm... I think my 600
pound gorilla friend may
have stepped on it...