Hooking up programing track to Digitrax Zephyr

[davefoxx]

I know that I'm going to get flack, but I'm speaking the truth. Here it goes. 


For you of all the people to run DCC, Digitrax is probably the worse choice you could have made. I am a computer geek and even I find the Digitrax human interface extremely non-intuitive and convoluted). Manuals are also terrible.  Maybe that is why you are having such a dislike of DCC?

Too bad that you didn't choose another DCC system which can which "talks" to you in plain English (not the gibberish shown on a 7-segment numerical LED display from the 1970s), and a system with easy to understand manuals.  NCE is one of those more user-friendly systems and the Power Cab (a complete DCC system) can be had for less than $150.

@peteski,

I would imagine that the negative respect points came from the tone of your post.  In a subsequent post, you lamented that you presented "factual knowledge from your first-hand experience."  I know you speak from experience, but, in your first post (which I included above), you stated, "For you of all the people to run DCC, Digitrax is probably the worse choice you could have made."  That's not factual.  That's an opinion, and it's an insult to all users of Digitrax.  You may not like Digitrax, which is a justifiable opinion and you have made it abundantly clear over the years.  But, there are thousands of model railroaders who use Digitrax and enjoy it.  In fact, just about everyone I know in the DMV uses Digitrax.  Not to mention that Digitrax has been around for a long time, so they must be somewhat successful.

As @John pointed out.  This argument is like Ford vs. Chevy or Coke vs. Pepsi.

Just a thought,
DFF

[Kentuckian]

Yes, DCC=good, and there is no accounting for taste. I just don't want OldEast to get frustrated and quit DCC. As you all know, it's important to have some early successes when trying something new.

Continuing the auto analogy, to me this is not ford vs. chevy. It's chevy vs. a German sports car with a custom manual transmission, and the owners manual is in German. The German car is really nice, but not what I would want a 16 yo driver to learn to drive with. Again, just my opinion.

[mmyers]

It is also possible the Zephyr's programming output are fried. If for any reason, track power gets inadvertently connected to the program outputs, they can be damaged. Also true of any DCC system. High current fed to a low current output usually doesn't come out well.

BTW, I own and love my Chevy truck. Work gives me a Ford. I like my Chevy better but the Ford is free.

Martin Myers

[John]

whats even funnier is that it wasnt that long ago when we had epic battles over DC vs DCC .. LOL

[peteski]

@peteski,

I would imagine that the negative respect points came from the tone of your post.  In a subsequent post, you lamented that you presented "factual knowledge from your first-hand experience."  I know you speak from experience, but, in your first post (which I included above), you stated, "For you of all the people to run DCC, Digitrax is probably the worse choice you could have made."  That's not factual.  That's an opinion, and it's an insult to all users of Digitrax.  You may not like Digitrax, which is a justifiable opinion and you have made it abundantly clear over the years.  But, there are thousands of model railroaders who use Digitrax and enjoy it.  In fact, just about everyone I know in the DMV uses Digitrax.  Not to mention that Digitrax has been around for a long time, so they must be somewhat successful.

As @John pointed out.  This argument is like Ford vs. Chevy or Coke vs. Pepsi.

Just a thought,
DFF

I guess you haven't seem several other recent posts from OldEastRR where he has a real hard time dealing with DCC.  Again, speaking from personal experience, I can see how for someone like him the Zephyr system would be quite frustrating. Even he admitted that he didn't choose it - it fell in his lap and he would like to own a more intuitive system.

There is no denying the fact that Digitrax's human interface (especially on the Zephyr) is not the easiest or intuitive for an-old school model railroader.

I never disputed the fact that Digitrax is one of the oldest DCC manufacturers (along with Lenz and NCE), and I believe that it is the most popular in USA. It is also most feature-rich (if someone has the need for all those features).  There are several reasons that Digitrax is the most popular system, but ease of use is not one of the reasons.

I'm not bashing Digitrax - just pointing out the fact that there are other, easier to deal with DCC systems.

I also disagree about the comparison to Chevy vs. Ford or Coke vs. Pepsi.  It is more like using ENIAC vs. a pocket calculator.

[mmyers]

Yes, DCC=good, and there is no accounting for taste. I just don't want OldEast to get frustrated and quit DCC. As you all know, it's important to have some early successes when trying something new.

So why don't we concentrate on helping him get his program track working?

[peteski]

I drive a Toyota .. other people drive Fords .. same difference .. they all have 4 wheels, engine, and a body .. but none of them have the exact same controls on the dash .. or the same seats, horsepower, etc .. get what's comfortable to you .. but by all means, go DCC

I'm going to disagree with you.  However, your automotive comparison is a good one.

Take a novice who never had a license or drove a car, and who is not that keen on driving in the first place. But you want them to learn how to drive and stick with it.

Which one would be better vehicle to start with?  A Toyota Camry with automatic transmission, power steering and power brakes, or a Peterbilt big rig with 15-speed transmission (you have to double-clutch) and air brakes?  If your friend starts off in the Camry, the learning curve will be fast and easy. The Peterbilt will be an exercise in frustration.  Your friend might just give up wanting to drive.

I realize that it is an extreme example, but still - should the introduction to DCC be easy or frustrating?

But Mmyers is right - we should get back to helping OldEastRR making the best of his situation.

[mu26aeh]

I will go with what someone else mentioned, possible the programming leads are shot.  I had same thing happen a couple years ago.  Sent to to Digitrax, $25 bucks later (or something close) and it was back working like new.  Said something about track power getting to the programming side or such.  Not sure how it happened but it did and it was fixed. 

[mmyers]

Can the engines be selected and run?
Can the functions be controlled? e.g. turn lights on and off?
What engines? manufacturer?
Do you know brand of decoder?

The above info will help to come up with a solution.

Martin Myers

[robert3985]

This comment is going to be like closing the barn door after the horse is already gone...

When I finally decided to go with DCC, I did a lot of research on various DCC systems and chose Digitrax because of its advanced features and Loconet.  Yup, I knew it wasn't as easy to use as other systems, and in light of that characteristic, my son and I built a 12' long test platform which was similar to the majority of mainline trackage on my DC sectional setup in the trainroom (double mainline, and a crossover) with the addition of the necessary (at the time) programming track, which was a section of the mainline that got switched from "track power" to "off" to "program" with a center-off DPDT toggle switch.

After the test platform was finished (taking an evening on pre-existing narrow bridge modules)...it took us about two weeks of fooling around with everything, with a computer close at hand to google answers to our uninitiated and ignorant questions...to get it all figured out.

The point to the test platform was not just to know how to use a Digitrax DCC system, but to also explore various wiring scenarios, how to solder feeders to the undersides of the rails on pre-installed, ballasted track, how to modify turnouts to be DCC friendly (if necessary), how to gap rail for both effectiveness and cosmetic good looks and how to properly install and use a programming track.  All of these things would apply to ANY non-Digitrax DCC system, and apply to any modeler who is converting his DC powered layout to DCC.

Although it took us two weeks of evenings to get everything up and running and learning how to use the features of our top-of-the-line Digitrax Radio starter set, only a fraction of the time was spent actually "learning" how to use it, and after the track was down and wired up, we had engines programmed and running within one evening.  Speed matching, consisting, and other more advanced non-default programming took extra time, but even at that, it wasn't all that complicated to either me, or my son.

Sooo...what does this long-winded lead-up have to do with the OP's problem?

One of the things we found out early on as far as programming tracks is concerned, is that if your programming track is a section of track that's connected to the rest of your layout, it is absolutely NECESSARY to provide "dead zones" on the portions of track which transition from your programming track to the rest your layout which is powered up.  These "dead zones" need to be a bit longer than your longest engine you'll be programming so that any engine running on your layout cannot run on to your programming track while the programming track is switched to "program".

This prevents engines from bridging the gaps and providing full track power to your in-use programming section and frying that part of your command station.

The protocol for the toggle switch (center off) controlling the section of track you use as a programming track is this (Position 1) "Track Power"- meaning your programming track AND your dead zone(s) is/are powered up just the same as the power block it's located in (Position 2-Center Off) "Off" - meaning your programming track section and dead zone(s) are unpowered and disconnected from both track power and programing power (Position 3) "Program" - meaning that the programming section is connected to the programming leads and your dead zone(s) is/are unpowered and disconnected from both track power and programming power.

I took the advice of everybody online and in the literature I read to provide the transition zones which got switched to "off" when Center Off and Program were selected on my toggle.  I am sure this prevented any powering up of my programming tracks, as I can remember at least a couple of times I had an engine drift into the dead zones while my attention was diverted by reading a decoder's manual while programming an engine on the programming track.

If the OP hasn't done this with his programming track, maybe an errant engine slowly creeping along and crossing on to the in-use programming track, or simply placing an engine on the programming track over the gaps, has fried his circuitry.

In any case, for the DCC uninitiated, ALWAYS provide switchable dead-zones around your programming track to protect your command station's circuitry.

I chose to provide fascia mounted red and green LED's to give me a positive indication of the condition of my programming track since my toggle switches are mounted low on the inside of my fascia, the screw of the L-shaped mounting bracket being the indicator of where they are.

Photo (1) - LED's under my programming track, with bracket-mounting screw between them, showing "Track Power" in this photo:


Photo (2) - 4PDT Center-Off Toggle Switch mounted low, behind fascia:


Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[OldEastRR]

About burnt out circuit -- my friend had another Z pak  that I used ONLY to try the programming track and still no go. Could it be something with the piece of track I'm using? I soldered wires to a Unitrack straight and it sits separately from the layout. It really does get frustrating, as the pgm function had worked on the original pack at first.
Tho the track won't read any of my drop-in decoders either, it does seem to be able to program some functions on the main. So far my only problems have been hard-wires and the drop-in MRC sound decoder, with the locos racing off suddenly at high speed and such.
As for all the other functions besides loco addresses, I've done very little. My few attempts have failed or given unknown results. What there needs to be is some pgm on a computer that you connect to the decoder and it lists every single CV and what its set to on a screen, all at once. And then be able to point and click to change various ones.

[mu26aeh]

What there needs to be is some pgm on a computer that you connect to the decoder and it lists every single CV and what its set to on a screen, all at once. And then be able to point and click to change various ones.

There is JMRI, which is a whole other animal to learn.

[RBrodzinsky]

About burnt out circuit -- my friend had another Z pak  that I used ONLY to try the programming track and still no go. Could it be something with the piece of track I'm using? I soldered wires to a Unitrack straight and it sits separately from the layout. It really does get frustrating, as the pgm function had worked on the original pack at first.
Tho the track won't read any of my drop-in decoders either, it does seem to be able to program some functions on the main. So far my only problems have been hard-wires and the drop-in MRC sound decoder, with the locos racing off suddenly at high speed and such.
As for all the other functions besides loco addresses, I've done very little. My few attempts have failed or given unknown results. What there needs to be is some pgm on a computer that you connect to the decoder and it lists every single CV and what its set to on a screen, all at once. And then be able to point and click to change various ones.

Have you verified that there is continuity from the programming track to Zephyr? Easy to have a bad solder joint with Unitrack.  While checking continuity, also check at the connector, to make sure the wires in the Digitrax header plug are seated correctly.  And, triple check that the wires are in the Prog A and Prog B slots.  The pesky ground slot in between them has messed me up a few times.

The success of the programming on the main just indicates that the track power is working correctly and getting to the rails. 

[peteski]

About burnt out circuit -- my friend had another Z pak  that I used ONLY to try the programming track and still no go. Could it be something with the piece of track I'm using? I soldered wires to a Unitrack straight and it sits separately from the layout. It really does get frustrating, as the pgm function had worked on the original pack at first.
Tho the track won't read any of my drop-in decoders either, it does seem to be able to program some functions on the main. So far my only problems have been hard-wires and the drop-in MRC sound decoder, with the locos racing off suddenly at high speed and such.
As for all the other functions besides loco addresses, I've done very little. My few attempts have failed or given unknown results. What there needs to be is some pgm on a computer that you connect to the decoder and it lists every single CV and what its set to on a screen, all at once. And then be able to point and click to change various ones.

Have we considered a possibility that your borrowed Zephyr unit is just defective?  IS there a friend with a known-good DCC sytem, a model RR club using DCC or a hobby shop nearby where you could take your DCC locos and test them there (both operationally and programming)?

[mmyers]

Can the engines be selected and run?
Can the functions be controlled? e.g. turn lights on and off?
What engines? manufacturer?
Do you know brand of decoder?

The above info will help to come up with a solution.

Martin Myers