Author Topic: CPR F unit Icicle Breakers  (Read 2754 times)

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CNR5529

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CPR F unit Icicle Breakers
« on: March 09, 2017, 11:49:42 AM »
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Does anyone have information on the icicle breakers that Canadian Pacific installed on their FP7a and FP9a locomotives, to protect the dome cars of the Canadian and Dominion?

I am trying to hunt down technical drawings so that I can super-detail a pair of Intermountain locos. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

This is what I am talking about:





Also, not sure if this is in the right place but it for an N scale model...  :D
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 10:44:08 AM by CNR5529 »
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mecgp7

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Re: CPR F unit Icicle Breakers
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2017, 07:06:34 PM »
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I had a custom FP unit in CP with the ice breakers. They sure looked factory made to me. Perhaps someone made them.

cbroughton67

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Re: CPR F unit Icicle Breakers
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2017, 09:25:32 AM »
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I wasn't able to find any technical info when I detailed mine, but I was able to find quite a few photos at http://mountainrailway.com/Diesel%20Roster%20Page.htm. Rapido offers an HO F-unit with icicle breakers. Photos of the model on their website were helpful as well. I ended up guesstimating their size and location from the photos and made mine from wire.

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CNR5529

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Re: CPR F unit Icicle Breakers
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2017, 10:59:21 AM »
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@cbroughton67, Well done with your models! Gotta love the "eye brows" look. I am glad that the CPR had only added a few extra grab irons in the 50s.

I had previously looked through the diesel roster photos, and have made up a list of all the details that need to be applied for my era. The current plan is to use drawings for the Park/Skyline domes to approximate the shape of the icicle breakers, unless I can get my hands on actual drawings for the breakers themselves.

That said, research always end up raising more questions than answers. Two questions I have now are:

1. Were the icicle breakers made from flat bar stock or round tubing? (to me it looks like flat stock)
2. Were the "mountain lights" mounted on all A units, or just the lead loco in a consist? I have found out that these were not so much spot lights, but rather a twin beam Gyralight, model Horiz. 20585.

Again, any and all info is appreciated!
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Paradise275

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Re: CPR F unit Icicle Breakers
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2017, 12:19:58 PM »
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Fredrick, Rapido Trains did them for The Canadian set they made in HO scale a couple of years ago. I have a set but contact Dan and he may be able to give you the specs they used.

Rick

daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: CPR F unit Icicle Breakers
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2017, 01:40:41 PM »
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Oh man I love these engines.

When I was a kid I had an issue of MR that described how to detail these with stuff found around a shoe store (I think the author was a shoe salesman).

Much later in college when I had my lifted 2 door Explorer (in vermilion), I was looking around for roof lights similar to those double barrel lights on the engine.

Sorry to drift your thread.
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CNR5529

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Re: CPR F unit Icicle Breakers
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2017, 08:25:49 PM »
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@
I don't know if they were applied for certain routes, and if so, were those locomotives in captive service for those routes due to having the avalanche lights?


From what I have found, CPR had a fairly complex routing system where locomotives were assigned on both short haul and long haul routes over the span of a few weeks, with maintenance intervals built into the rotation. The Canadian for example was originally assigned FP9as and F9bs out of Montreal, and a pair of FP7s out of Toronto. The two sections were combined in Sudbury using the FP9a-F9b-FP7a consist all the way to Vancouver, while the last FP7a would wait for the next return run to Toronto. The locos would then be used on local assignments in between the cross country runs. That's why you can sometimes find the "mountain light" on commuter trains out of Montreal:



I am just confused because it looks like the lights were removable, yet they weren't removed for secondary assignments, and weren't equipped on all locos either.

@

From the photos I've looked through, I'm certain that the icicle breakers were made from flat stock.


Maybe I can flatten some thin round wire to simulate flat stock... hmm.

contact Dan and he may be able to give you the specs they used.

Good idea! Will try asking Rapido...
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peteski

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Re: CPR F unit Icicle Breakers
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2017, 10:26:09 PM »
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Detail Associates makes several sizes of flat brass wire.
https://www.walthers.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=flat+brass+wire
Maybe 0.015x0.018" or 0.015x0.024" would work?

They also used to make 0.010x0.018" and 0.010x0.030" flat brass wire, but I don't see it available anymore - I still have have few pieces squirreled away.
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wcfn100

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Re: CPR F unit Icicle Breakers
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2017, 10:50:18 PM »
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Detail Associates makes several sizes of flat brass wire.
https://www.walthers.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=flat+brass+wire
Maybe 0.015x0.018" or 0.015x0.024" would work?

They also used to make 0.010x0.018" and 0.010x0.030" flat brass wire, but I don't see it available anymore - I still have have few pieces squirreled away.

They do make a .010 x .018 flat brass.  It's #2522.  The Walther's listing may be wrong for that part number.

Jason

CNR5529

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Re: CPR F unit Icicle Breakers
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2017, 10:33:10 PM »
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So, thanks to @Paradise275, I got my hands on the HO Rapido CPR FP9a from the Canadian set, and was able to measure all sorts of details.

The icicle breakers would scale down to a profile of 0.007" x 0.013", which is quite a bit smaller than the Detail Associates flat brass material. I think I will try etching them instead, and fold them to shape, much like how Rapido did the HO model.

That said, I was able to draw up some of the other details needed, to be 3D printed. First up, CPR's extra large winter hatch:

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Next, the mountain light:

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I am trying to make this part hollow so that I can install a nano LED inside and get the gyralite functionality.  :scared:
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robert3985

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Re: CPR F unit Icicle Breakers
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2017, 08:05:53 AM »
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No need to get complicated about how to make the icicle-breakers from flat stock.  K & S Engineering Company sells sheet brass in .005" and .010"  thicknesses.  For a bit of added durability, they also sell phosphor bronze sheets in .008" thicknesses. 

If you want thinner, they sell a package of "shim stock" that has sheet brass in .001", .002", .003" and .005" thicknesses.

When I need to have brass strapping or other long flat stock that's around a scale inch or two thick, or less, I take my calipers and set them to whatever width I want, and scratch a line on a straight edge of the sheet brass or phosphor bronze sheet I'm gonna cut, which leaves a nice, bright scratch right where I want to cut.

Then, I take a pair of sharp scissors, and carefully cut along the nice, straight scratch I've made on the sheet.

Usually it curls, but it's easy to straighten out.

Then, I emboss whatever rivets or bolt-heads into it I need to, bend it to shape, solder bracing or whatever to it...mount it to the model, and I'm done.

No need to etch the part, flatten wire, buy brass flat-stock that may or may not be the correct width or thickness....just mark it, cut it, straighten it out, emboss it, bend it, solder on accessories and mount it to the model.  Easy as pie and quick too.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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CNR5529

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Re: CPR F unit Icicle Breakers
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2017, 12:28:16 PM »
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No need to etch the part, flatten wire, buy brass flat-stock that may or may not be the correct width or thickness....just mark it, cut it, straighten it out, emboss it, bend it, solder on accessories and mount it to the model.  Easy as pie and quick too.

That seems simple enough, I'll have to head over to my LHS to see what they have in stock and give this a try!

Thanks!
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peteski

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Re: CPR F unit Icicle Breakers
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2017, 02:50:03 PM »
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If you make them truly scale thickness they might be a bit fragile. That would be ok for a display model, but they might get mangled on a operational model.  Sometimes it makes sense to make details a bit more robust when the models are utilized on an operational layout.
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CNR5529

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Re: CPR F units (Super-Detailing Intermountain locos)
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2017, 12:28:50 PM »
+1
Been making progress drawing out some of the other detail parts needed for this project.

CPR Style water tank:

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GMD style FP9a dual air reservoirs:

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I will likely use MBE parts for the K3 horn and some other details.

If you make them truly scale thickness they might be a bit fragile. That would be ok for a display model, but they might get mangled on a operational model.  Sometimes it makes sense to make details a bit more robust when the models are utilized on an operational layout.

I'll try it out and see how it goes. If the icicle breakers really are too flimsy I will beef them up a bit, but it will be very easy to make them look oversized. Phosphor bronze may be the answer here. I'll just treat it like a convoluted grab iron... :scared:
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 08:30:42 PM by CNR5529 »
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