Troubleshooting Atlas code 55 curved turnout

[mmagliaro]

My curved turnout had exactly that same problem too. And if you try to shim or spike those rails closer together, that will force the point rail area to be too narrow! In my case, those rails weren't so wide that wheels would drop in, but wide enough to make wheels pick the open point rail. My solution was rather brute force, but... I installed two additional "guard rails" between the rails at that wide spot. Lengths of rail curved and filed to a taper on each end, located between the rails. They keep everything centered as a car or engine leaves or enters the turnout. It really doesn't stand out because they are just 1" lengths of rail between the rails.

Atlas, I really, *really* wish you would do something about this and fix up the code 55 line of turnouts. The problems are painful and have been ongoing for years.

[nickelplate759]

Thanks for the suggestion. Any chance you have a picture of your solution?

[nickelplate759]

Interestingly, I have 3 curved turnouts, two left and one right.   The two lefts are new, and seem OK.  The right is old, and re-used (rights are hard to find just now), and is the one that's causing trouble.

[nickelplate759]

Some careful observation with a loco that reliably derailed (a Kato E5 as it happens), and I've been able to tune the turnout so it more or less works.     When the turnout was set to right, the E5 was picking the point and riding up over it to take the left route. The point of that switch was thicker than some others, and blunt - I took a file and sharpened the point.  I also noticed that the plastic that holds the point to the throwbar was quite thick and caused the flange to ride up - so I filed that down just next to the point as well.   So far that's enough to make it work, but of course it doesn't fix the gauge problem.

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I've still got plenty of turnout issues to work through (several Micro Engineering turnouts are causing problems as well), but it's a start!

[Cajonpassfan]

George, when you say derailments galore, could you be more specific? Are you running with fine wheels and they drop in? Or is the problem locos climbing out?  Is the problem bidirectional, or just facing point?

I have three of these and the only issue I have when taking the facing point/reverse position (tighter radius) direction with certain locos. IMHO the hard transition from the wide to tight radius is more of an issue than gauge. Fortunately, mine are on double track and virtually all movements are (by design) trailing point. You may want to try installing a short inside guardrail just outside the points to help pull the wheels toward the inside rail and point.
Of course, if you're running fine thread wheels, you need to address the gauge issue.
Good luck.
Otto K.

UPDATE: Doh, sorry, I didn't see this page until now so my advice is not timely...
Sounds like you have it figured out.
Otto

[nickelplate759]

Well, I have that one figured out - sort of.  I'm having a turnout kind of day.   I've discovered that a few of my Micro-Engineering turnouts are seriously tight in gauge through the points, and that's causing some engines to climb over the point and take the wrong route.  I've been doing a lot of tedious filing to try and fix them, but there's more to do.   I've also discovered an Atlas #10 that a wheel is hitting the sharp edge of the notch the point seats in and bouncing out - that was fixed by smoothing the corner of the notch.

Every turnout seems to have its own particular problem.

Yes, I'm running fine tread wheels.  Oddly, the Fox Valley fine tread wheels are pretty darned forgiving.  I'm having more problems with various engines, although my Bachmann NW2 seems to be able to get through absolutely anything.

[mmagliaro]

Thanks for the suggestion. Any chance you have a picture of your solution?

Here ya go.  It's nothing particularly inspiring, but I really don't think it calls attention to itself and it does solve the problem.  With those guard rails in there, everything goes "down the middle" as it approaches the points, which solves a lot of quirky problems.

That little square of white styrene is a shim to keep the throwbar down.  I keep meaning to stain that black!

[nkalanaga]

I've seen pictures of prototype turnouts, in industrial track, with similar "point guards".  The prototype also has a device to prevent "picking the points" that fastens to the outside of the running rail, forcing the wheel away from the rail just enough to avoid hitting the point, sort of like a self-guarding frog.  Guardrails can be used on both sides, as Max did, while the outside guard is intended for only one side of the track.

[OldEastRR]

Yes, interesting that after some wear and rail buffing after treated with blackening solution the Atlas frogs turn bright shiny copper. Very prototypical!!

[peteski]

Yes, interesting that after some wear and rail buffing after treated with blackening solution the Atlas frogs turn bright shiny copper. Very prototypical!!

But wait . . . there is more!  Some more buffing and track cleaning will reveal that there is some sort of silver metal under that copper. 

It seems that the frogs, points, and guard rails are cast from some sort of white metal (zinc or aluminum alloy maybe?), which is electroplated with copper, the plated again with another metal (nickel silver?). Copper is often used as an intermediate metal for plating operations.  Too bad these items were not just cast directly in nickel-silver.  Probably too expensive.

[robert3985]

I've got a different problem - the points are pretty much OK, but the gauge just before the points is too wide.

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The red circle shows the problem area.    Derailments galore?   Any suggestions on how I can fix that?

Some careful observation with a loco that reliably derailed (a Kato E5 as it happens), and I've been able to tune the turnout so it more or less works.     When the turnout was set to right, the E5 was picking the point and riding up over it to take the left route. The point of that switch was thicker than some others, and blunt - I took a file and sharpened the point.  I also noticed that the plastic that holds the point to the throwbar was quite thick and caused the flange to ride up - so I filed that down just next to the point as well.   So far that's enough to make it work, but of course it doesn't fix the gauge problem.

I've still got plenty of turnout issues to work through (several Micro Engineering turnouts are causing problems as well), but it's a start!

Okay, let's do a little logical thinking here about how to check turnout reliability.

When I build a turnout, I NEVER run an engine through it first.  I always use trucks that have cast plastic, low-pro MTL wheelsets...which are perfectly gauged.

Checking your turnout with an engine that "reliably derailed" is NOT what you should be checking it with.  You should be checking it with, first...a car or two with wheelsets that you KNOW are working perfectly and are properly gauged.

When your cars are running through the turnout without problems, then...and only then, should you test the turnout with an engine that has been checked and adjusted so that its wheelsets are properly gauged and with modern non-pizza-cutter flanges.  A Kato E-8 is a good candidate, but ONLY AFTER IT HAS BEEN CHECKED AND ADJUSTED SO THAT ITS WHEELSETS ARE PROPERLY GAUGED.

Here's a good rule of thumb "Never assume that an engine comes from the factory with properly gauged wheelsets...in fact, ALWAYS assume that all new engines are NOT properly gauged and need checking and adjusting before they will run reliably."

If your cars run though the turnout just fine, but some engines don't, then the logical assumption should be that the problem lies with the engines, not the turnout.

If some of your engines run through the turnout, but others don't...and some are better, or worse than others...then you have a consistency problem with your engines...usually the gauge is out on them to varying degrees, and most likely, the problem is NOT with the turnout.

Adjusting and modifying a turnout specifically so that a particularly bad-tracking engine which won't run through it will, while other engines run through it just fine,  is counterproductive.  The logic-train is that the problem lies with that particular engine, not with the turnout.

Interestingly, the ONLY engines that I've ever had perfectly gauged from the factory were my Kato FEF-3's, so I'm gonna suggest to anybody whose engines (and not cars) are having turnout problems, that you check the gauge on your engines before going to town on your turnouts...especially if your cars all run through the turnouts without problems.

Just sayin' 

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[nickelplate759]

Okay, let's do a little logical thinking here about how to check turnout reliability.

When I build a turnout, I NEVER run an engine through it first.  I always use trucks that have cast plastic, low-pro MTL wheelsets...which are perfectly gauged.

...  so I'm gonna suggest to anybody whose engines (and not cars) are having turnout problems, that you check the gauge on your engines before going to town on your turnouts...especially if your cars all run through the turnouts without problems.

Just sayin' 

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

REALLY good advice.  I sort of did this - in that I did first start with 4-axle trucks that I knew were in gauge (Fox Valley wheelsets).   The E5 was about the third engine.  I picked it for the 6-wheel trucks.   But here's the thing...

...on another switch (Micro Engineering) close examination revealed it was picking the OPEN switch point, but only on the lead truck.  Hmm... at that point I got out my NMRA gauge and sure enough two axles were narrow in gauge.   I fixed that (without fixing the switch any further) and everything is fine.

The real lesson, for me at least, is that don't assume there is only ONE cause for the problem.  The Atlas switch I mentioned really is out of gauge.  So was the Micro-Engineering switch.  So was the E5....