Author Topic: Keystone Customs now offers 3 types of UP OSH Trucks for CA Class Cabeese!  (Read 1169 times)

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Lemosteam

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Keystone Customs announces Union Pacific Q Outside Swing Hanger (OSH, my coin) Trucks for CA class Cabeese. These trucks are designed for 0.540" low profile flange axles of your choice and an MT bolster pin. For questions about proper application of these trucks contact your favorite UP expert (or this thread, lol!).  A Dremel #105 bit helps to polish the axle pockets for smooth rolling, and a wire can be used to simulate the torsion bar.

Friction Bearing style: https://www.shapeways.com/product/XEZ4G2FRA/n-scale-up-friction-bearing-q-truck-2pk



Roller Bearing style without an external generator:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/6WYN8FLLF/n-scale-up-roller-bearing-q-truck-2pk-w-o-generato



Roller Bearing style with external generator. Fine wire strands can be used for the generator belts:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/FJTX34XGK/n-scale-up-roller-bearing-q-truck-2pk-w-generator




Happy Modeling our UP friends!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2017, 07:28:02 AM by Lemosteam »

tom mann

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Re: Keystone Customs now offers 3 types of UP Q Trucks for CA Class Cabeese!
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2017, 08:23:13 PM »
+2
Keystone? You mean Shield?

Lemosteam

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Re: Keystone Customs now offers 3 types of UP Q Trucks for CA Class Cabeese!
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2017, 08:25:37 PM »
0
Keystone? You mean Shield?

Don't start with me mister.   :trollface: :D  I get enough grief from your weathering pal.

Chris333

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Re: Keystone Customs now offers 3 types of UP Q Trucks for CA Class Cabeese!
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2017, 08:36:07 PM »
+1
Diamond!  :D

C855B

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Re: Keystone Customs now offers 3 types of UP Q Trucks for CA Class Cabeese!
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2017, 08:50:26 PM »
+1
Keystone? You mean Shield?

I may just paint a CA-4 into Pennsy just to aggravate all of you, with matching Centennial. That'll fix y'all's little red wagon.

Actually, UP's marketing department refers to it as a "medallion". Po-TAY-to, Po-TAH-to, by any other name it's still "shield".

I really appreciate John doing these. The only options for the correct trucks were the oldest versions of the Centralia Car Shops CA-3 and 4, and on Overland and Hallmark brass cars. This all started in this thread.

And I stand corrected from that thread - CA-5 through CA-7 were riveted-side cabeese, welded sides not coming along until the CA-8 class in 1964. I'm trying to get a handle on whether the CCS cabooses can be used as stand-ins for the newer classes, or if shaving off the rivets will be a reasonable approach to the welded versions. It might be a matter of underbody detail such as battery boxes, maybe a window or two, since the basic size and shape remained constant from 1942 to 1975.
...mike

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cjm413

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Re: Keystone Customs now offers 3 types of UP Q Trucks for CA Class Cabeese!
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2017, 09:10:22 PM »
-1
I may just paint a CA-4 into Pennsy just to aggravate all of you, with matching Centennial. That'll fix y'all's little red wagon.

Actually, UP's marketing department refers to it as a "medallion". Po-TAY-to, Po-TAH-to, by any other name it's still "shield".

I really appreciate John doing these. The only options for the correct trucks were the oldest versions of the Centralia Car Shops CA-3 and 4, and on Overland and Hallmark brass cars. This all started in this thread.

And I stand corrected from that thread - CA-5 through CA-7 were riveted-side cabeese, welded sides not coming along until the CA-8 class in 1964. I'm trying to get a handle on whether the CCS cabooses can be used as stand-ins for the newer classes, or if shaving off the rivets will be a reasonable approach to the welded versions. It might be a matter of underbody detail such as battery boxes, maybe a window or two, since the basic size and shape remained constant from 1942 to 1975.

http://utahrails.net/caboose/caboose-steel-features.php

chicken45

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Re: Keystone Customs now offers 3 types of UP Q Trucks for CA Class Cabeese!
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2017, 09:18:33 PM »
0
Keystone? You mean Shield?

Keystone Customs, a Keystone Details (TM) brand. A division of A.E. Newman Enterprises.
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mmagliaro

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Re: Keystone Customs now offers 3 types of UP Q Trucks for CA Class Cabeese!
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2017, 10:24:06 PM »
+1
Ya know... if Lemo ever starts making NP prototype parts, then he'd really have something there  :D
(quietly backs away, dons pith helmet).



daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Keystone Customs now offers 3 types of UP Q Trucks for CA Class Cabeese!
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2017, 11:12:57 PM »
0
How about some flexcoil students for the Atlas HTC gear tower?
Dan's Train Company
Forcing grandma to make my trains since 2019.

robert3985

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Re: Keystone Customs now offers 3 types of UP Q Trucks for CA Class Cabeese!
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2017, 11:48:09 PM »
0
John, sorry to disabuse what you're calling these trucks, but they're not "Q" trucks.  "Q" trucks were the wooden beam 5' between axles CB&Q trucks that UP used on early passenger cars and many wooden cabooses when the old passenger cars were scrapped. Crews liked them because they were smooth riding and comfortable.

EDIT:  After looking at John's truck models more closely, this whole treatise as it applies to his product needs to be changed, so I have stayed up late and done that.   :facepalm:  John has done the "outside-swing-hanger" truck which was introduced on the CA-5 in 1952.  It was also used on the CA-7, and a roller bearing version was used on the CA-8, CA-9 and CA-10.

What fooled me was the lack of the prominent stabilizing torsion bar on the prototype truck, but it appears that John has included the torsion bar end mounts and a wire can be inserted into these to represent the torsion bar.  An excellent idea!

So, I am changing some of the information and comments to correctly fit the product.

In 1942, when UP got its first steel cabooses, 100 CA-3's...they came with the wooden beamed "Q" trucks.  Next, in 1944 came 100 CA-4's, virtually identical to the CA-3's except for some under the roof bracing on the platforms that nobody knows what is, and isn't visible in any photos I've ever seen. 

Photo (1) - Here's a photo of "Q" trucks on a Golden West Models CA-3/CA-4 kit I'm modifying and superdetailing...the trucks are from Panamint Models at Shapeways:



In 1952 U.P. took delivery of 100 CA-5 steel cabooses, which were visually identical to the earlier two classes except for the roof panels, the end platform railings and a special cast support bracket for the ends of the running boards.  The ladder tops were totally different also with "cages" rather than the bent-down ladder tops on the the CA-3/CA-4's.  The other difference is the trucks, which were sleeve-bearing "outside-swing-hanger" steel trucks.  In the same year, 50  of the CA-3's and CA-4's wooden-beamed "Q" trucks were removed and replaced with the new all-steel "outside-swing-hanger" trucks, which rode as good, but were much less labor-intensive to maintain.

Photo (2) - Outside swing hanger trucks on older Intermountain CA-3/CA-4's are correct for being on 50 of these two caboose classes starting in 1952, 97 more were converted until 1958:


Unfortunately, CCS/IMR has decided to change their U.P.CA-3/CA-4 models and discontinue these trucks, substituting leaf-spring "caboose" trucks that may be Micro Trains products, but are totally incorrect for U.P. steel cabooses.

Fortunately John has wisely modeled and printed the "outside-swing-hanger" truck the prototype of which was introduced first by retrofitting 50 CA-3's and CA-4's in 1952, then equipping their new CA-5 with them later that same year...the "friction bearing" version, and it looks to be much more robust than the CCS/IMR version which comes apart if not "welded" together.

In 1955 U.P. started building 100 new CA-6 cabooses, which were identical to the CA-5's except they didn't have the special cast support piece on the ends of the running boards, weren't equipped with tool/battery boxes as original equipment, had the first changeable safety slogan boards, and came equipped with new "inside-swing-hanger" trucks.

U.P. converted 50 CA-3/CA-4 cabooses with these new "inside-swing-hanger" trucks in 1956.  The remaining CA-3/CA-4 cabooses received "outside-swing-hanger" trucks until 1958 when in total, 147 CA-3/CA-4 cabooses were running with the "outside-swing-hanger" trucks, and the remaining 50 retained the "inside-swing-hanger" trucks installed in 1956.

This means that John's "outside-swing-hanger" trucks historically would not have been seen on CA-3/CA-4 U.P. cabooses until 1952, but by 1958, the old "Q" trucks had been completely removed from every CA-3/CA-4 steel caboose, and fitted to older wooden CA-1's and the few CA's that still were around.

John's trucks would also be seen on CA-7's and in roller bearing form on CA-8's, CA-9's and CA-10's. 

A version of these was used to equip all of U.P.'s "pool service" cabooses, with the truck mounted generator.  A few CA-3's and CA-4's were converted to pool service, so the roller-bearing, generator equipped trucks are appropriate for these.

So, you should be calling these "outside-swing-hanger" trucks, not "Q" trucks.

Eventually, all U.P. steel cabooses operating on the road received roller bearing trucks, mostly "outside-swing-hanger" trucks with the exception of the CA-6's which retained their "inside-swing-hanger" trucks until they were retired, none of that class being converted to pool service.  CA-3's and CA-4's which retained these trucks would have been required to have roller bearings eventually also, even those not in pool service.  What was most common was to insert Timken bearings in place of the sleeve bearings, with the trucks still retaining the journal box lids.  U.P. would paint the lids either yellow or aluminum, and letter each lid with "Use No Waste, NMR Co."

I'm very happy you've produced these, as they work great for the middle of the decade I'm modeling between 1947 and through 1956 on the U.P. between Ogden and Wahsatch UT.  I'll be ordering some to equip my Goldenwest Models CA-3/CA-4 kits with and any RTR CCS/IMR cabooses I decide to purchase and modify.

Your next U.P. part should be "inside-swing-hanger" trucks, as 50 CA-3's and CA-4's were equipped with these beginning late in 1955 and early 1956 and would work well on correctly lettered CCS/IMR CA-3/CA-4's.

Photo (3) - "Inside-swing-hanger" trucks on an incorrectly painted and numbered Overland 1st run CA-6:


Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore       


« Last Edit: February 09, 2017, 07:06:51 AM by robert3985 »

Cajonpassfan

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Re: Keystone Customs now offers 3 types of UP Q Trucks for CA Class Cabeese!
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2017, 12:04:24 AM »
0
Lol Bob, I figured you'd set that Pennsy guy straight.... :D
But they are "swing hanger" trucks; hangars are the things airplanes go in, although visiting a swing hangar might be fun 8)
Nice work on those trucks John, regardless of the label, just a bit too modern for me... I'm sticking with the real Q's...
Otto K.

robert3985

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Re: Keystone Customs now offers 3 types of UP Q Trucks for CA Class Cabeese!
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2017, 02:19:29 AM »
0
...But they are "swing hanger" trucks; hangars are the things airplanes go in, although visiting a swing hangar might be fun 8)...
Otto K.

Thanks Otto...duly noted and repaired...

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

robert3985

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Re: Keystone Customs now offers 3 types of UP Q Trucks for CA Class Cabeese!
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2017, 05:45:21 AM »
0
...I really appreciate John doing these. The only options for the correct trucks were the oldest versions of the Centralia Car Shops CA-3 and 4, and on Overland and Hallmark brass cars. This all started in this thread.

And I stand corrected from that thread - CA-5 through CA-7 were riveted-side cabeese, welded sides not coming along until the CA-8 class in 1964. I'm trying to get a handle on whether the CCS cabooses can be used as stand-ins for the newer classes, or if shaving off the rivets will be a reasonable approach to the welded versions. It might be a matter of underbody detail such as battery boxes, maybe a window or two, since the basic size and shape remained constant from 1942 to 1975.

Nope.  Unless you don't care about window sizes and placement, cupola size and dimensions, roof panel differences, end step difference.  John's roller-bearing version of his "outside-swing-hanger" trucks would work excellently for CA-8/CA-9's with the attached generator being appropriate also depending on what year you decided to make your foob CA-8/CA-9 fit.

Way back when, I collected several of the Hallmark "welded" and "riveted" U.P. brass cabooses they made.  Pretty bad models, but they were all that was available for a steel U.P. caboose at the time.  Then, Overland came out with their first run of N-scale U.P. cabooses, and I bought a pot-full of these and painted 'em up, put brass marker lights on the early ones with MV lenses, and ran these because the Hallmark cabooses just didn't look "right" for some reason.

Years later, I decided to see if the Hallmark "welded" and "riveted" cabooses were actually modeled after any prototype U.P. cabooses.  "Cabooses of the Union Pacific Railroad" by Strack & Ehernberger had just come out with its plethora of information about U.P. cabooses, and made very difficult previous research very easy.  I found out that the Hallmark "riveted" caboose was totally wrong and didn't represent any actual U.P. caboose.  However the "welded" version was roughly representative of U.P. CA-8 and CA-9 cabooses with some major, but fixable differences and faults. 

I scrapped all of my "riveted" cabooses, keeping a lot of un-soldered detail parts for future use, and developed a scheme for turning the "welded" version into a very close model of a 1964 as-delivered CA-8.

Photo (1) - This is what I started out with...an out-of-the-box Hallmark U.P. "welded" caboose.....


Photo (2) - Another shot of the stock Hallmark model:


I won't go into a lot of detail about what needed to be done, but what was wrong with the model was just about everything except the basic core.  The cast running boards were garbage, the ladder cages were too small, the roof overhung the sides, the smoke jack looked like an alien robot, the windows were too small and their etched-in safety bars were laughable and the grabs were all noticeably too thick.

However, the basic body, after mods, was just about spot-on dimensionally...so I set out on the project.

Photo (3) - Here's the finished (except for the interior) model in the brass and ready for paint with over 50 scratch-built parts soldered on:


Photo (4) - Here's the model after paint and decals and a bit of selective weathering.  I wanted the model to represent a caboose that had just undergone some body panel repairs and was fresh out of the shop:


Photo (5) - Another CA-8 view:


Photo (6) - Caboose on the box:


I ran this caboose behind my Overland GTEL turbines and it got as many comments as the motive power at shows.

I've got another one I'm deciding if I want to work on again.  I sold this model to a collector in Russia for an ungodly amount, so it might be worth it to do another one...a CA-9 this time in pool service configuration I think.

If you compare this model with the CCS/IMR model, you can see it would be much easier to convert an old Hallmark "welded" caboose if you can find one at a good price, than attempt to convert a CCS/IMR assembled plastic caboose.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
« Last Edit: February 09, 2017, 07:00:09 AM by robert3985 »

Lemosteam

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Re: Keystone Customs now offers 3 types of UP Q Trucks for CA Class Cabeese!
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2017, 07:21:06 AM »
0
All, as Joshua correctly states, (albeit jokingly) Keystone Customs is in fact a brand of Keystone Details focusing on designing non-PRR parts and generic non-PRR details by request of a customer.  So there is no point to setting the PRR guy straight- all reference information, drawings and photos are provided by the customer and I trust that they have done their best with that info.

Requests for any designs can be made here anytime! :http://www.keystonedetails.com/suggest-a-product

That said, I appreciate all of the feedback from Bob and others and will correct things both here and on Shapeways.  I will try to interpret Bob's info as best I can, and hopefully I will not screw that up. 

The point is here that trucks that were not readily available, now are.

@mmagliaro Dude, all you have to do is ask (and provide the data and background).  In fact I was hoping to have a Keystone Customs part on your brass beauty (lol), but alas, the request never came  :P.

@C855B We all try our best and i was happy to oblige for you and the other UP modelers.

@daniel_leavitt2000 If I infer correctly, I am awaiting a shipment from Mr. Dance, and that is on the list.






C855B

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Re: Keystone Customs now offers 3 types of UP Q Trucks for CA Class Cabeese!
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2017, 09:31:58 AM »
0
... John's roller-bearing version of his "outside-swing-hanger" trucks would work excellently for CA-8/CA-9's with the attached generator being appropriate also depending on what year you decided to make your foob CA-8/CA-9 fit. ...

Depends, Bob. CA-8 and -9 had the generator hung internally, so you would normally want to use John's non-generator version. There are two or three pics in Don's book of identified CA-8s and -9s with external generators, but these examples were removed from pool service and my best guess is the trucks may have been swapped in the shop as part of the downgrade, or modified for external due to easier servicing in the field. CA-10s have external generators apparently due to a different truck source. Don says very little about CA-10s.

Until somebody produces more accurate - and affordable - versions, for the time being I'll be fine with the close foobs that attempted to follow the prototype, as the unique general look is what is important, to me at least. With John's hard work, this is at least a little better now that we no longer have to settle for the SP trucks on the CCS releases. Anyway, consider the alternative short of scratchbuilding... the dozens of non-UP models on the market in yellow paint? I'll pass on those.
...mike

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We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents. We just don't tell anybody. -Bob Ross