Suggest your favorite low temperature solder

[narrowminded]

I purchased my American Beauty unit on E-bay.  They go for a lot of money, even used, but are also truly industrial, daily use and abuse, industrial units.  The wires, machined solid connections, 10 gauge wire and soft, flexible insulation, etc.  All have the qualities needed for daily industrial use. 

I just watched on E-bay for several months and wound up getting a very nice 100 watt transformer and the tweezer grip for $125.  Absolutely like new, VERY little evidence of use.  Then I added a foot switch from Harbor Freight as used for router, drill press, etc. motor control and up to 15 amp or so for under $10 in lieu of a factory one for $50+.  It is one of those pieces that they did a good job on and is very rugged, very nicely made.  Then I found the wire stripper tweezers for $22 (one of my main reasons for wanting one, stripping 32 gauge wires in volume).  Then after several attempts at purchasing the 1/8" probe and finding nothing that wasn't within 20-30% of new price and also older style with cork heat insulator and showing all of the expected wear of old cork, I broke down and bought a new handpiece for $90.  So basically, with all of the attachments, I wound up with what would have cost about $650 or so new for just under $250.  And it's all absolutely serviceable and new or like new.  I'm happy.  And should I find that 100 watts doesn't do something I need to do regularly, it only takes a 250 watt power supply.  All other components work on either supply. 

Based entirely on anecdotal evidence, the Micro-Mark 68 watt unit and its claims, assorted videos, and now Robert's remark about only using about 3% or maybe a little more on a typical task with his 250 watt unit, I doubt I will need any larger but is why I was asking.  I could easily see if someone was working on O scale or larger, maybe even some HO, that they may want to solder some pretty hefty pieces at times but as my work is all N or Z, I'm pretty certain that 100 watts will prove more than adequate.  Time will tell.

[narrowminded]

Oh, and thank-you Robert.  That was a useful post.  

I get so wrapped up in the details that the courtesies are sometimes forgotten.  Not intentional and for the times I forget, all, please understand that I am always grateful for the exchanges, including many threads where I'm just the eavesdropper.  They are always helpful even if only confirmations of understood items.  Thanks to all of those who post.  I learn 'tings here.

[peteski]

Max,  I have the AB 250W unit and yes, there isn't much inside. But it is more than just a transformer.  First of all, the transformer is custom made to provide over 80 Amps of current at 3V max.  Then there is an autotransformer. That allows to control of the power (by reducing the input voltage to the power transformer.  Remember this post?  You participated in that discussion.  The unit might be pricey, but you are paying for more than just the sum of parts. It is very well made and lots of accessories are available.

[narrowminded]

Peteski, anything in your experiences to add about power requirements?  100 watt vs: 250 for typical N scale work like Max is doing?

[narrowminded]

While we're at it, for one off circuit boards in these models.  Whether etched or machined, what about leaving the bare copper vs: totally tinned or masked or..?  And what about the copper thickness/ weight?  Any advice from anybody who's been there?

Also, what about hot air reflow soldering with paste but without a mask.  Problems with bridging or workable?  Inquiring minds need to know.

[peteski]

Peteski, anything in your experiences to add about power requirements?  100 watt vs: 250 for typical N scale work like Max is doing?

While I do own the unit, I have not had a need to use it enough to consider myself experienced enough to make recommendations.   The most use that unit got was when I lent it to a friend who was using it for soldering ME flex-track on his 12' long NTRAK module which features a mini-spaghetti-bowl layout.

As far as the power rating goes - you don't need to use full 250W for the precision tasks using the small tweezer points, but it is nice to have the reserve power for the larger jobs. Sort of like driving a car with a 700hp engine: you don't use full power in everyday driving, but it can come in handy in some instances. 

[peteski]

While we're at it, for one off circuit boards in these models.  Whether etched or machined, what about leaving the bare copper vs: totally tinned or masked or..?  And what about the copper thickness/ weight?  Any advice from anybody who's been there?

Also, what about hot air reflow soldering with paste but without a mask.  Problems with bridging or workable?  Inquiring minds need to know.

Tinning is mostly cosmetic - if you are planning on soldering soon after the board is made then there is not needed. Actually I find that the tinned pads are more difficult to solder than bare copper. There is sime sort of chemical reaction when soldering electroless-plated copper.  If I etch a batch of boards which will not be used right away I leave the photo-resist layer intact - it protects the copper from oxidizing.  Then I clean it off right before soldering.  Masks? Again not needed for what we do (and there really isn't a good home-brew way to apply solder mask to a circuit board).

While I do have solder paste and hot-air tool needed to melt it, I don't use it often. Most of the SMD components I use have leads exposed on the outside ans I just use a soldring iron with a very small conical tip and standard solder (and acid-free paste flux).

[narrowminded]

Tinning is mostly cosmetic - if you are planning on soldering soon after the board is made then there is not needed. Actually I find that the tinned pads are more difficult to solder than bare copper. There is sime sort of chemical reaction when soldering electroless-plated copper.  If I etch a batch of boards which will not be used right away I leave the photo-resist layer intact - it protects the copper from oxidizing.  Then I clean it off right before soldering.  Masks? Again not needed for what we do (and there really isn't a good home-brew way to apply solder mask to a circuit board).

While I do have solder paste and hot-air tool needed to melt it, I don't use it often. Most of the SMD components I use have leads exposed on the outside ans I just use a soldring iron with a very small conical tip and standard solder (and acid-free paste flux).

Thanks, Pete.  This is not an area that I have much experience in.

It was my inclination not to worry about the tinning and it's nice to hear you don't find it helpful for the soldering itself.  I was of a mind that in the environment that these live in a bare board should be acceptable but just wasn't sure what experienced folks might know that's not obvious.  And what about copper thickness?  Any experience base there?  Part of me leans to thicker for durability in handling and part of me thinks it's not a big deal, it holds up even when thin.  One of my major concerns was if I was to do one of those pinch type connections that all of the cool manufacturers are using on their light boards and DCC boards, will a pad hold up?  Maybe a good place to at least tin?  Maybe a pen plate of nickel or even gold at those points?  Or just go with the copper.  These are the things that are keeping me up nights.

[peteski]

Thanks, Pete.  This is not an area that I have much experience in.

It was my inclination not to worry about the tinning and it's nice to hear you don't find it helpful for the soldering itself.  I was of a mind that in the environment that these live in a bare board should be acceptable but just wasn't sure what experienced folks might know that's not obvious.  And what about copper thickness?  Any experience base there?  Part of me leans to thicker for durability in handling and part of me thinks it's not a big deal, it holds up even when thin.  One of my major concerns was if I was to do one of those pinch type connections that all of the cool manufacturers are using on their light boards and DCC boards, will a pad hold up?  Maybe a good place to at least tin?  Maybe a pen plate of nickel or even gold at those points?  Or just go with the copper.  These are the things that are keeping me up nights.

Copper thickness is usually important when large currents are expected. I don't worry about that in our model RR applications where currents are under 1 Amp and the trace width is usually 0.015" or wider. I get my blanks from surplus vendors and those usually come with 1 oz. copper cladding. In many instances the thickness is not even specified, but I never had any problems with the copper traces burning or heating up.

If you are planning on using the copper pads as a pressure-type connector then yes, tinning might be a good idea. I think manufacturers use nickel plating or of course gold plating for maximum reliability. I also sometimes apply thin film of vaseline to prevent oxidation.

[robert3985]

As I stated in my initial post, you can find good deals on the AB stations if you're patient and prepared to act fast.  I slobbered over mine for nearly five years at a local hobby shop while it sat on a lower shelf with a $600+ price tag on it.  I mentioned it one day to the owner that it had been on the shelf a long time, and he just happened to ask me "What will you give me for it?"  I pulled two $100 bills out of my pocket and walked away with it!  Frankly, after using it on several complex models and projects, the $600+ price would have been worth it to me.

I've used it on several different scale engines and cars, and I've never had the power dial up over 1/2 power.

So, to answer the question as to whether the 100W station would work for N-scale, the answer is YES.  However, like Peter @peteski  correctly points out, it's better to have more power than you need than to not have enough.

I agree, there are lower priced resistance soldering stations or tools, but...and this is a big "but", the American Beauty station is an "instrument" and is made for industrial reliability with well-proven, precision tools and a company that is there for support and buying parts that you'll use up as you build your fine, brass models. They've been around a long time, and have a corner on the market.  It appears to me that they will continue to be around in the future.

Y'know, watermelon tastes really great.  But, attempting to explain how it tastes to somebody who has never had a slice is a lot like attempting to 'splain what resistance soldering will do for your model building...take it from me, if you love to scratchbuild out of brass, you will never regret spending the bucks on a quality AB resistance soldering station.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

 

[Cajonpassfan]

All really good info guys, but I'm still interested to hear from someone who has /tried the 63W Micromark unit.
Anyone? What will the AB do that the MM can't, with proper accesories, in N scale applications? (I know its nice to have a 700HP car, but I don't have one either, and don't think the price tag is worth it, or prudent).
Otto K.

[narrowminded]

All really good info guys, but I'm still interested to hear from someone who has /tried the 63W Micromark unit.
Anyone? What will the AB do that the MM can't, with proper accesories, in N scale applications? (I know its nice to have a 700HP car, but I don't have one either, and don't think the price tag is worth it, or prudent).
Otto K.

From my own research when weighing this, the little bit of experimenting I did, the information added here, and finally the reputation of Micro-Mark for being pretty trustworthy on their tool recommendations, I would say yes, it's probably worth it and will probably cover typical N scale needs.  I also expect it would be very salable if you later decided you needed additional capability or just didn't like/ need it. 

I came very close to purchasing one of the Micro-Mark units but with some of the needs I expected to encounter pursued the AM unit and as I described. 

[peteski]

All really good info guys, but I'm still interested to hear from someone who has /tried the 63W Micromark unit.
Anyone? What will the AB do that the MM can't, with proper accesories, in N scale applications?

It is not just about power. It is about the build quality and accessories.  Also, does the 63W unit have continuous power adjustment?  It is really handy to be able to fine tune the power to fit the job.

I'm sure the 63W unit will be adequate, but it won't give you all the options of the AB unit.

[narrowminded]

I've used it on several different scale engines and cars, and I've never had the power dial up over 1/2 power.

So, to answer the question as to whether the 100W station would work for N-scale, the answer is YES.  However, like Peter @peteski  correctly points out, it's better to have more power than you need than to not have enough.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

That's what I guessed and is actually very helpful for what my concern was.  That good seat of the pants advice from someone who's been there.

And extra HP?  Most wouldn't know this but my retirement day job is teaching motorcycle road racing on race tracks around the east coast and while my 600 cc work horse with over 100 HP will do EVERYTHING you need, seeing 150-160 MPH, there's another whole level of fun with a 1000 cc at 180 HP under you and seeing 170-180 MPH pretty much at will.  But when you get into the corners, where you separate the skill levels, the 600 has about all you need or can use.  I think the 100 watt is the 600cc in this case.

[robert3985]

All really good info guys, but I'm still interested to hear from someone who has /tried the 63W Micromark unit.
Anyone? What will the AB do that the MM can't, with proper accesories, in N scale applications? (I know its nice to have a 700HP car, but I don't have one either, and don't think the price tag is worth it, or prudent).
Otto K.

Although I haven't used the MM resistance soldering station, I have looked closely at it, and that, combined with my experience with the AB station allows me to see the major differences between build quality and usage of the two stations.

(1) The MM unit is much more crudely built.  Period.  Also, the probe and tweezer for it are larger and would have to have some modifications to work properly in most of the applications I use the same instruments for.  Particularly the tweezer.  The AB tweezer has easily replaceable tips, which I have bent for proper holding on complicated parts and applications.  That will be difficult or impossible with the MM tweezer since it does not have replaceable tips and may necessitate the purchase of more than one tweezer, each modified for different applications.  At $56 bucks a whack, that could add up fast. You will also note that the product description of the MM tweezer states it is to be used only on the LOW POWER portion of their soldering station, which limits its usefulness.  There is no "low power" requirement for the AB tweezer, only a recommended duty cycle for settings above 50% power.

(2) The MM unit's probe looks okay, but will retain heat because of its plastic construction.  The AB probe has an integral finned heat sink and more insulation for your hand if you're using it for something like a day's worth of laying track.  Both probes have replaceable carbon electrode tips, but the MM's appear to be pure carbon as opposed to the AB's being a carbon/copper composite for added strength and longevity.  Also, the AB's electrodes appear to be smaller in diameter, which for N-scale details could allow these to be used in places the MM's electrodes would not fit. However, instructions with the MM electrodes state they can be shaped to get where they need to go.  Practically, I sharpen my AB's electrode often when soldering small details.

(3) The biggest problem I have with the MM unit is there are only two power settings, HIGH and LOW...and are achieved by attaching the ground clip to one or the other with wingnuts.  This is really a low tech way of doing it, and in my usage, I am changing my power knob quite often, and not just between two points, but many points.  Some of my applications involve soldering brass wire that is less than .003" in diameter, and I know I have the capability on my AB station to do that without melting the wire.  When I'm de-soldering details from brass models, sometimes the parts I'm removing are fairly large, such as the roofs from the old Hallmark "riveted" UP caboose model and I have to crank the power up.  I only have two choices of power with the MM station, whereas I have a much broader and practical range of power choices for my AB station, both on the bottom end, and the top end...and in between too.

In my experience, 65W is about the maximum power I've used.  When I'm holding and soldering small parts, the electrode and tips on my probe and tweezers NEVER glow bright amber as in the instruction video for the MM unit.  This is way too hot in my experience and the idea is for heat to be generated in the metal, not the electrode or tips.  The reason for this is you hold the part in place before, during and after the solder melts and wets both parts...if the tip is glowing, it will take a LOT longer to cool down than if it isn't, and other soldered-on components may fall off because of this excessive heat.  Since the MM unit only has two power choices, fine tuning the MM station is impossible.  For correct resistance soldering, being able to properly adjust the wattage is imperative...and necessary.

For my dollar, and if I weren't a professional model maker working in many scales, for N-scale, the perfect price point is the lower-priced AB 100W station.  I'd get the model with the tweezers, and add the probe.  I'd also get spare probe electrodes and tweezer tips at the same time.  The cost is about half of what a brass Overland GTEL Super Turbine is going for.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore