Author Topic: Oregon Joint Line N Scale  (Read 48627 times)

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mu26aeh

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Re: Oregon Joint Line N Scale
« Reply #360 on: April 21, 2019, 10:25:42 PM »
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I love when I see a new video pop up from Oregon Joint Line.  Love it !

jagged ben

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Re: Oregon Joint Line N Scale
« Reply #361 on: April 21, 2019, 11:17:48 PM »
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The latest yard operations video.  Most of your favorite characters are there plus a few new ones.

Perfect except that the molded plastic waste basket was clearly too new for 1969.   But I can confidently say that nothing on the actual layout broke my suspension of disbelief.   :D

coldriver

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Re: Oregon Joint Line N Scale
« Reply #362 on: April 22, 2019, 10:29:27 PM »
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Perfect except that the molded plastic waste basket was clearly too new for 1969.   But I can confidently say that nothing on the actual layout broke my suspension of disbelief.   :D

Thanks, I was trying to finish up and all I had on hand was that foob out of era receptacle.  It's the first time I've "broken the fourth wall" as they say in the business.  As just about everything in my videos, it was based on a real event I experienced as a prototype yardmaster... 
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 08:19:41 PM by coldriver »

coldriver

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Re: Oregon Joint Line N Scale
« Reply #363 on: May 28, 2019, 08:23:48 PM »
+5
time for a new video and a new chance to get that "Oregon Joint Line" jingle stuck in your head for the next few days.  This time we focus on through freight operations. 

Cajonpassfan

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Re: Oregon Joint Line N Scale
« Reply #364 on: May 28, 2019, 08:59:25 PM »
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Dang, nice! I always enjoy these updates!
Otto K.

C855B

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Re: Oregon Joint Line N Scale
« Reply #365 on: May 28, 2019, 11:17:04 PM »
+2
Always impressive, Dean. Always. My wife enjoys your videos, too, asking "Can we do that?".

Something I noticed from my days in the radio shop... the era you're modeling is roughly contemporary with my time there. Seeing that (...I think...) you're younger than I, you might not be aware of an operational quirk that would be an issue with the disparate roads' locomotives and cabooses represented in your operation.

The Santa Fe way car was what caught my attention, especially since you're portraying quite a bit of radio ops. Synthesized, frequency-agile radios did not yet exist. Most roads had two or - at best - four channel radios. Some lines had two frequencies, road and yard, and would put "rocks" (crystals, a/k/a "channel elements") in the other two positions corresponding to RRs where they had operating agreements. For example, in road service locos at the time, UP would typically have four-channel radios: road freq in #1, ATSF road in position #2 for Cajon Pass, and SP road in #3 for joint ops on the Overland Route (I can't recall what was in #4... CB&Q, maybe?). Foreign power lacking this mix could not lead.

Cabooses would be much more restricted, most having just 2-channel radios since going off the home road was unusual. Again using UP as an example, they upgraded most of the road fleet to "P"-marked (pool) cabooses in the late '60s with 4-channel transceivers corresponding to locomotive practice. A notable exception was the handful of "K"-marked cabooses, with D&RGW in (...I think...) channel #4 for the joint coal ops.

ANYway, what I'm trying to say here is given the radio limitations of the day, it is unlikely that just any Santa Fe caboose would have the OJL road frequency in any channel element position. Not impossible, just unlikely. When push came to shove, however, and the particular bit of equipment absolutely had to go out on the road (foreign power leading, or foreign caboose operating without a home-road caboose), the radio shop would be tasked with changing out the radio pack to the normal home-road frequency set. This created a bit of a logistics nightmare in getting the replaced radio pack back to the rightful owner if the caboose, loco or whatever did not return back to the shop where the radio was changed. Bear in mind that these radios were $1000+/each in 1970, and therefore were a tightly managed asset. In the case of a caboose on through ops, it was usually more expedient and less costly to tack a home-road caboose on the back and call 'er "done".

I recall this distinctly because RR radio was a sub-hobby at the time, so I happened to know other RR's frequencies. Charlie (shop foreman) complained at length that management would not let him officially have this info, so it became my job to open-up the stray packs, see what channel elements were in it and determine who they belonged to. Then it was his job to figure out how (in the heck) to get 'em back home. :facepalm:

Frequency-agile radios didn't appear in general RR use until ~1980, just about the time I left the RR biz.
...mike

http://www.gibboncozadandwestern.com

We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents. We just don't tell anybody. -Bob Ross

coldriver

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Re: Oregon Joint Line N Scale
« Reply #366 on: May 29, 2019, 09:35:45 PM »
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I appreciate your thoughts and info.  One of the reasons I specifically chose the era and locale I did is because it was really the start of the western pool power era with railroads beginning to more freely run through power and cabooses.  Whether or not there was a specifically designated group of cabooses that was set up to run through from the GN/BN to the WP I honestly can't say but since my layout only has a very limited number of ATSF, WP, and SP cabooses (and you keep seeing the same damn ones over and over) I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to assume that my caboose pools could've been set up that way.   I can tell you that I served as conductor for a while on one of our last runs that regularly used cabooses (because it helped with the Canadian border crossing) and you would probably not be surprised to learn that by that time (early to mid 90's) cabooses weren't exactly the best maintained item in the rolling stock fleet.  I made several trips where the caboose radio was non-functional and in those cases ended up just using my portable radio (the oldheads still referred to them as "packsets" - a term carried forward from an earlier era) the entire time.  I could always talk to the head end, yardmasters, and the clerks handling the border crossing on my "packset" and depending on the proximity to radio towers quite often talk to the dispatcher.  If I was unable to reach the dispatcher the head end crew would just relay to me as I copied track warrants or other instructions.
As far as actual layout communications in an op session situation we don't use any radios - it's a phone system.   But, it's a lot more fun portraying it in radio-style on the videos though especially since it helps recreate the radio chatter of my early days working in operations (yup, there's some era cross-dressing going on...).  I can't imagine how boring those videos would be if they weren't done with radio-style communications (so stop your nitpicking!).


Always impressive, Dean. Always. My wife enjoys your videos, too, asking "Can we do that?".

Something I noticed from my days in the radio shop... the era you're modeling is roughly contemporary with my time there. Seeing that (...I think...) you're younger than I, you might not be aware of an operational quirk that would be an issue with the disparate roads' locomotives and cabooses represented in your operation.

The Santa Fe way car was what caught my attention, especially since you're portraying quite a bit of radio ops. Synthesized, frequency-agile radios did not yet exist. Most roads had two or - at best - four channel radios. Some lines had two frequencies, road and yard, and would put "rocks" (crystals, a/k/a "channel elements") in the other two positions corresponding to RRs where they had operating agreements. For example, in road service locos at the time, UP would typically have four-channel radios: road freq in #1, ATSF road in position #2 for Cajon Pass, and SP road in #3 for joint ops on the Overland Route (I can't recall what was in #4... CB&Q, maybe?). Foreign power lacking this mix could not lead.

Cabooses would be much more restricted, most having just 2-channel radios since going off the home road was unusual. Again using UP as an example, they upgraded most of the road fleet to "P"-marked (pool) cabooses in the late '60s with 4-channel transceivers corresponding to locomotive practice. A notable exception was the handful of "K"-marked cabooses, with D&RGW in (...I think...) channel #4 for the joint coal ops.

ANYway, what I'm trying to say here is given the radio limitations of the day, it is unlikely that just any Santa Fe caboose would have the OJL road frequency in any channel element position. Not impossible, just unlikely. When push came to shove, however, and the particular bit of equipment absolutely had to go out on the road (foreign power leading, or foreign caboose operating without a home-road caboose), the radio shop would be tasked with changing out the radio pack to the normal home-road frequency set. This created a bit of a logistics nightmare in getting the replaced radio pack back to the rightful owner if the caboose, loco or whatever did not return back to the shop where the radio was changed. Bear in mind that these radios were $1000+/each in 1970, and therefore were a tightly managed asset. In the case of a caboose on through ops, it was usually more expedient and less costly to tack a home-road caboose on the back and call 'er "done".

I recall this distinctly because RR radio was a sub-hobby at the time, so I happened to know other RR's frequencies. Charlie (shop foreman) complained at length that management would not let him officially have this info, so it became my job to open-up the stray packs, see what channel elements were in it and determine who they belonged to. Then it was his job to figure out how (in the heck) to get 'em back home. :facepalm:

Frequency-agile radios didn't appear in general RR use until ~1980, just about the time I left the RR biz.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 09:37:36 PM by coldriver »

wm3798

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Re: Oregon Joint Line N Scale
« Reply #367 on: May 29, 2019, 10:09:05 PM »
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I think I like the operation of thru freights as much if not more than switching a local.  Really love the layout...  and as an old Barber Shop bass, the jingle needs a little something more at the bottom... :D

Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets

Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net

C855B

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Re: Oregon Joint Line N Scale
« Reply #368 on: May 29, 2019, 10:28:30 PM »
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... (the oldheads still referred to them as "packsets" - a term carried forward from an earlier era) ...

Here's a packset:



I "borrowed" the image from the web since I could not find the box with my surplussed packset for a firsthand pic. They used lantern batteries, which was A Very Good Thing because we didn't have to keep up with charging stations. Packsets were frequently delegated to caboose duty to compensate for the maintenance issue you cited. Not to mention to use on the ground they were heavy and awkward and left you with only one hand to work with... what a flippin' pain!

We also had handheld portables at the time - 2-channel Motorola HT220s, to be exact - which some crews tended to use as wheel chocks when comm wasn't perfect. :facepalm:  After the second such event we would issue a packset. Served 'em right.
...mike

http://www.gibboncozadandwestern.com

We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents. We just don't tell anybody. -Bob Ross

coldriver

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Re: Oregon Joint Line N Scale
« Reply #369 on: May 29, 2019, 10:38:49 PM »
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That's awesome - can't imagine hauling around something like that!  What was the approximate date range for that type of rig? 

Here's a packset:



I "borrowed" the image from the web since I could not find the box with my surplussed packset for a firsthand pic. They used lantern batteries, which was A Very Good Thing because we didn't have to keep up with charging stations. Packsets were frequently delegated to caboose duty to compensate for the maintenance issue you cited. Not to mention to use on the ground they were heavy and awkward and left you with only one hand to work with... what a flippin' pain!

We also had handheld portables at the time - 2-channel Motorola HT220s, to be exact - which some crews tended to use as wheel chocks when comm wasn't perfect. :facepalm:  After the second such event we would issue a packset. Served 'em right.

C855B

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Re: Oregon Joint Line N Scale
« Reply #370 on: May 29, 2019, 11:31:43 PM »
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They started in the mid-'50s with a really crude tin-can lunchbox design with vacuum-tube "finals" (final RF transmit stage). Of course that was state-of-the-art then. It was superseded in the early '60s by a solid-state version semi-related to the Motrac mobile product line, also in a metal case. The ruggedized-plastic packset in the pic was ~1970-1980. I think that was the end of the line so to speak, Motorola (to my knowledge) never marketed a frequency-agile RR version in this configuration, although the basic design may have lived a few more years in MIL-SPEC.
...mike

http://www.gibboncozadandwestern.com

We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents. We just don't tell anybody. -Bob Ross

Blazeman

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Re: Oregon Joint Line N Scale
« Reply #371 on: May 30, 2019, 01:54:22 PM »
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Enjoy the voices almost as much as watching the trains. Is that all you, or do you get your helpers to take a part?