Decoder cost vs features vs quality?

[Scottl]

I now have four locomotives in need of decoders (3 Kato AC44 and 1 Fox AC44).  I have previously used TCS decoders and have been satisfied by the drop-in versions, but in pricing out new decoders, I have noticed that Digitrax are nearly $10 less than TCS (or 14 Canadian pesos).  There appear to be some minor feature differences, but I have to admit is not clear to me why there is such a difference.  Is this something to do with quality or features?

I have also read here in other threads that some folk have had very positive experiences with the LokPilot decoders.  These are priced around the same as TCS decoders, so I wonder if these are worth considering?  It looks like they have a drop in version for the Fox Valley unit but the Kato models would need some hard wiring, which I am fine with.

I am not interested in sound and my focus is on basic lighting and smooth operation.  Any thoughts on how to make the best choice here?

[jdcolombo]

I haven't used Digitrax decoders since their second generation came out in the late 1990's, because I found the motor control circuits vastly inferior to the Lenz Silver Mini, which became my "standard" decoder at the time.  Many people like Digitrax's current generation, but I can't comment on it.

These days, I use LokSound Select Micros for sound, and LokPilot Micro v.4's for non-sound installs, after having tried TCS's M1 and Z2's.  I had problems with the Z2 decoders (they would slow down between speed steps 2 and 3 when using a speed table; others documented similar behavior, which may now have been fixed via a software change).  My biggest gripe with the TCS decoders, however, is that you cannot customize the BEMF parameters like you can with the ESU LokPilot.  This isn't often necessary, but when it is, it is, and TCS won't allow you to do it.  That's the reason the original version of the TCS decoder for the Kato FEF didn't work - the BEMF parameters were not correctly tuned for Kato's new coreless motor.  TCS corrected the problem with new software, but I got a LokPilot to run the FEF as smooth as silk after playing with some of the BEMF timing parameters.  ESU's decoders also implement forward and reverse trim, which the Lenz Silver Mini does not (the Lenz is still a great motor decoder, but having the forward and reverse trim options is helpful for speed matching locos).  The only thing I've found slightly disappointing about ESU is its implementation of a Mars light effect, which I find somewhat inferior to Lenz's similar implementation.  But with some adjustments, it is acceptable, and only an issue for me on my PA-1's.

I actually think that the Zimo MX621 is the best motor decoder I've ever used, but their documentation is terrible, and I prefer having a single decoder brand.  Dealing with only one decoder brand means that I know most, if not all, of the quirks of the ESU, and speed-matching and momentum-matching locos for consist use is much simpler.  Not a huge deal, but anything to make life simpler when dealing with DCC (and the accompanying array of CV's) is helpful.

John C.

[jagged ben]

Disclaimer:  some of this deals with subjective opinion, and some may vary with different production runs of decoder.

I do not believe TCS is worth extra money, but you might feel differently if you care about a brake-on-DC feature, or if you have strong feelings about the quality or character of particular lighting effects. 

One bug that Digitrax has in their decoder firmware is that you can't dim a rear light when the locomotive is traveling forward.  That's something that might matter to you if you model modern DPU operations, but which I've decided to live with.

I understand that the Digitrax 166 series have improved lighting effects over the 163 series, but that refers only to the efdect algorithms.  The feature list remains the same as far as I know.

In my experience TCS LED color is too blue.  I've also had programming and performance issues, but I should hasten to add I've only used the CN series.

I haven't tried to compare or improve motor performance much, myself.

[CNscale]

I have several TCS CN-series decoders, and experience the same inconsistent speeds on odd speed steps as John C. mentioned. TCS does have a great warranty where they will replace a blown decoder no questions asked (well, they didn't ask me any questions). But after emailing them about the speed problem they could not confirm that it has been resolved in new decoders (they instead said that CV5 should not be set to a value below 100).
I have several Rapido GMD-1 locomotives with either Digitrax DN136D or Loksound v4 micro sound decoders. In this case the mechanisms are identical, but the motor control on the sound units is so much better I'm considering replacing the Digitrax decoder.
I'm tempted to try a Zimo just to find out if they're as good as everyone says, but if my only choices were Digitrax and ESU, I'd go with the ESU.

[Scottl]

Thanks everyone, it is helpful to hear your opinions.  Good to hear from you again Chris!

[AKNscale]

I don't have any experience with TCS, but I can tell you that I used to buy only Digitrax and the main reason I got away from them is their motor control. I've been switching to ESU and have been very happy!

[Philip H]

I have a little. It of everything - hard wired digitrax CNs, and TCS and NCE drop ins. Honestly I never paid much attention to consistency.  I have no sound decoders but will probably go Lok Sound when I start doing them unless the drop in boards get better sound files and speakers.

[Philip H]

And building on that, is the issue with these drop ins just the speaker, or the sound file as well:

http://www.litchfieldstation.net/product/drop-in-mobile-sound-decoders-fits-kato-n-scale-sd40-2-and-similar-245-sdxn146k1e/

http://www.litchfieldstation.net/product/digitrax-n-scale-sound-decoders-sdn144k1e-1-amp-n-scale-mobile-decoder-for-kato-sd40-2-and-similar-locos/

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I've lately preferred "anything but Digitrax", basically because I've had bad luck with their quality control: issues with DOA decoders, decoders that don't fit right, and other issues.

[tehachapifan]

And building on that, is the issue with these drop ins just the speaker, or the sound file as well:...

Perhaps comparing sound file samples at the following links might help to answer your question...

http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/sounds/loksound-select/loksound-select-usa/

http://www.digitrax.com/sound-depot/list/

[reinhardtjh]

Perhaps comparing sound file samples at the following links might help to answer your question...

http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/sounds/loksound-select/loksound-select-usa/

http://www.digitrax.com/sound-depot/list/

For a while the Digitrax decoders were having a lot of new sound files created by a man named John McMasters.  He would post them in the Digitrax Sound Yahoo Group first and then submit them to the Digitrax Sound Depot later.  He did a lot of great work in figuring out how AJ's decoder programming language worked.  Unfortunately about mid-June he up and all but disappeared from the group and he removed share rights from the Google drive where he had published his sound.  Later we found out he had demolished his current layout and was in process of building another.  Speculation was that he was concentrating on that and didn't want distractions.  He never did respond to any query in a public manner.  However, just a couple days ago he did post and furnish a sound file to a member that was asking for one for a Bachmann Doodlebug.  Hopefully he will be back as he was a great resource for the Digitrax sound community.

[ryan_wilkerson]

For drop in decoders, I've decided to go with TCS for a few reasons.
1) I like how they operate. Good motor control with BEMF, built in resistors for LED hookup and good low speed operation.
2) Excellent Warranty. I've had problems with 3 decoders (of 80+ installs for myself and friends) and each time I've sent it and within 10-14 days (coast to coast and back) have had a working decoder back in my possession for no cost and no hassle. I can't say that for the times I've dealt with Digitrax (called me back and charged me $18 per decoder) and MRC (took months to respond and then never responded).
3) Completely made in the USA (might explain the price difference): https://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Technical_Info/Tech_Info/FAQPage.php?q=12

They are easy to install (just like drop-ins from Digitrax, NCE, etc).

For the 6-pin decoders, I've standardized on ZIMO MX622N. I have used them for: FVM Gevos, GP60, GP60M, GP60B and recently the addition of an Arnold SW1. I haven't had to use their warranty yet. Operation is awesome and even slower speed control than the TCS 6-pin.

[tehachapifan]

The only thing I've found slightly disappointing about ESU is its implementation of a Mars light effect, which I find somewhat inferior to Lenz's similar implementation.  But with some adjustments, it is acceptable, and only an issue for me on my PA-1's....

John C.

John, are you talking about the rather pronounced stair-stepping up and down in brightness with the default settings? I noticed this with my gyralight setting but got it adjusted to the point that it is now my favorite in the fleet. Haven't tried it with the mars effect, but can send you my CV settings if you want to try it with the gyralight.

....also, FWIW, regarding mars vs. gyralight, I've noticed via many videos, etc., of both that, depending on the vantage-point/viewing angle, a mars light will display what looks more like a gyralight flash pattern and vice-versa.

[jdcolombo]

Hi Russ.

Yep.  That's what I'm talking about.  Would appreciate your CVs and any other insights on this.

John C.

[tehachapifan]

For starters, I have CV112 set to 27 (with index CV32=0 first, of course). It seems like I had to set something else too but can't recall just yet and haven't spotted it in the manual yet either. Might have been an adjustment to extend dim time, unless I'm thinking of my Zimo's. Let me know if this setting helps. It doesn't eliminate the stepping entirely, but it's less noticeable on mine. Mine is also flashing at a rate of around once per second, so that would be an indicator that there's another setting if you get a different flash rate. I am using an LED for the gyralight, so LED compensation mode is also enabled. This is also on a pre-"Full Throttle" version of the LokSound Select micro. Not sure if these CV's have changed with the latest version.