Author Topic: Lifelike Eriebuilt shells on Kato PA chassis?  (Read 1769 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Cajonpassfan

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3652
  • Respect: +721
Lifelike Eriebuilt shells on Kato PA chassis?
« on: December 21, 2016, 07:30:03 PM »
0
Has anyone tried installing LL Eriebuilt shells on Kato PA mechanisms? The Eries have a slightly longer wheelbase (both truck axle spacing and truck centerlines) but the bodies are quite close. Before I start messing with the idea, it would be good to know if it's possible and if the result is worth it.
Thanks in advance!
Otto K.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 11:52:32 PM by Cajonpassfan »

brokemoto

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 969
  • Respect: +52
Re: Lifelike Eriebuilt shells on Kato PA chassis?
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2016, 09:47:12 AM »
0
I have not tried it. 

I wonder if the V-Line Erie shells will fit the Kato chassis (or the LL, or even the updated C-C PA chassis, for that matter).  The V-Line shells and the
C-C  power chassis were constructed in such a way that the front coupler opening would foul the front truck mounted coupler tongue and cause derailments on anything less than a fifteen inch radius curve.   I have a pair of C-Cs on the PA chassis, but I have some mainline curves of seventeen inches, so I have no problems.   In reality, a body mount, which is not difficult, would be better.

Do you have only the LL shells and no power chassis?   The old LL power chassis for these things was pretty good.

Roger Holmes

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1127
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +209
Re: Lifelike Eriebuilt shells on Kato PA chassis?
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2016, 12:40:09 PM »
0
I put the LL Eriebuilt shells on Kato PA's a long time ago because I could put drop-in decoders in the Kato PA's.  I don't recall any problems.  They are in my display case at home so I'll take a look at them over the weekend.  I do know that I have carried the two LL Eriebuilt chassis in my swap meet box for years and never had anyone show an interest in them.
Best regards,

Roger

There are 10 kinds of people in the world.  Those who understand the binary system and those who don't.

Lenny53

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1700
  • Respect: +435
Re: Lifelike Eriebuilt shells on Kato PA chassis?
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2016, 12:48:11 PM »
0
I have not tried it. 

I wonder if the V-Line Erie shells will fit the Kato chassis (or the LL, or even the updated C-C PA chassis, for that matter).  The V-Line shells and the
C-C  power chassis were constructed in such a way that the front coupler opening would foul the front truck mounted coupler tongue and cause derailments on anything less than a fifteen inch radius curve.   I have a pair of C-Cs on the PA chassis, but I have some mainline curves of seventeen inches, so I have no problems.   In reality, a body mount, which is not difficult, would be better.

Do you have only the LL shells and no power chassis?   The old LL power chassis for these things was pretty good.

One of the ConCor PRR limited edition sets featured the V-line shell on their PA frame.  Other than dcc considerations I'd take the my LL Erie mechanism over Kato PAs which have a high center of gravity and tend to  come off track topple over even in medium curves.

Lemosteam

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4011
  • Gender: Male
  • PRR, The Standard Railroad of my World
  • Respect: +1230
    • Designer at Keystone Details
Re: Lifelike Eriebuilt shells on Kato PA chassis?
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2016, 01:59:33 PM »
0
I put the LL Eriebuilt shells on Kato PA's a long time ago because I could put drop-in decoders in the Kato PA's.  I don't recall any problems.  They are in my display case at home so I'll take a look at them over the weekend.  I do know that I have carried the two LL Eriebuilt chassis in my swap meet box for years and never had anyone show an interest in them.

If they are the split frame chassis I might be interested.  I'll send a PM.

brokemoto

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 969
  • Respect: +52
Re: Lifelike Eriebuilt shells on Kato PA chassis?
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2016, 10:09:05 AM »
0
I do know that I have carried the two LL Eriebuilt chassis in my swap meet box for years and never had anyone show an interest in them.

As I understand it, putting a decoder into a Kato diesel is easier than doing the same to an LL, but I have no experience in that, as I do not use DCC.   That would explain why Original Poster might want to use a Kato PA chassis.

The LL Erie is supposedly like a hen's tooth, so I am surprised that nobody wanted the chassis, if for no other reason than to drop a V-line shell onto one.   I wonder what would happen if you put it up on FeePay.

brokemoto

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 969
  • Respect: +52
Re: Lifelike Eriebuilt shells on Kato PA chassis?
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2016, 10:18:27 AM »
0
One of the ConCor PRR limited edition sets featured the V-line shell on their PA frame.  Other than dcc considerations I'd take the my LL Erie mechanism over Kato PAs which have a high center of gravity and tend to  come off track topple over even in medium curves.

This forum needs a multi-quote feature.

The LL Erie chassis is far superior to the old C-C PA.  In fact, the LL is far superior even to the revamped C-C PA chassis.  I never had the problem of their jumping the track or doing a Laugh-In on anything above a fifteen inch radius curve.  I have had the tongue that holds the front truck-mounted coupler get fouled on the small coupler opening and cause a derailment on eleven inch and smaller curves.  I do not recall ever trying to run mine on anything between eleven and fifteen inch curves.

C-C did issue Eries separately from the Penn set, although the only ones that I have seen are Penn, NYC and undecorated.   I have a pair of passenger NYCs that Dave Thurston painted that were formerly  undecorated.

I have the LLs, as well: a couple of undecorated A-Bs, another one painted in a non-historic roadname/scheme, an A-B-A Penn and an A-B NYC freight.  I had thought that I had sold either the NYC or the Penn, but I found all of them, a while back.   Getting old, I guess.

I do not disagree with you.  I would take the LLs over even the "new and improved" C-Cs.

thomasjmdavis

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1974
  • Respect: +270
Re: Lifelike Eriebuilt shells on Kato PA chassis?
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2016, 10:50:45 AM »
0
I think the real question here is how do you find a LL Erie Built shell, and what happened to the tooling, anyway?  I've seen, I think, 2 AB sets in my whole life, years ago at Des Plaines Hobbies (I think) one each ATSF and MILW sets.  Did not have the money in my pocket at the time to buy them.  Had assumed, since everyone seemed to sell out in a matter of weeks, that there would be another run.....

Of course, with LL bought out by Walthers, my guess is that we will never see another LL (Walthers) run, and looks like Kato has passed on the opportunity to do them for their Hiawatha.
Tom D.

"The difference between the difficult and the impossible is that doing the impossible is usually more fun." (my college design professor Russell Whaley)

Lenny53

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1700
  • Respect: +435
Re: Lifelike Eriebuilt shells on Kato PA chassis?
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2016, 11:30:35 AM »
0

The LL Erie chassis is far superior to the old C-C PA.  In fact, the LL is far superior even to the revamped C-C PA chassis.  I never had the problem of their jumping the track or doing a Laugh-In on anything above a fifteen inch radius curve.  I have had the tongue that holds the front truck-mounted coupler get fouled on the small coupler opening and cause a derailment on eleven inch and smaller curves.  I do not recall ever trying to run mine on anything between eleven and fifteen inch curves.

I do not disagree with you.  I would take the LLs over even the "new and improved" C-Cs.

  It's not the Con-Cor units I had problems with derailing, it's the Katos.   The problem with newer China made Con-Cor PAs is the truck assemblies,  if you swap them out with trucks from an old Japan made PA they run much better.   Yes, the LL Eries are better than any Con-Cor PAs.

Cajonpassfan

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3652
  • Respect: +721
Re: Lifelike Eriebuilt shells on Kato PA chassis?
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2016, 02:17:46 PM »
0
I put the LL Eriebuilt shells on Kato PA's a long time ago because I could put drop-in decoders in the Kato PA's.  I don't recall any problems.  They are in my display case at home so I'll take a look at them over the weekend.  I do know that I have carried the two LL Eriebuilt chassis in my swap meet box for years and never had anyone show an interest in them.

Thanks Roger, you're the only one that actually answered my original question, but you say "long time ago". Did you drop them onto the DCC ready chassis, or an older one?
Thanks, Otto K.

trainutz

  • Posts: 16
  • Respect: +5
Re: Lifelike Eriebuilt shells on Kato PA chassis?
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2016, 11:47:38 PM »
+2
This thread got me to thinking about how/what I want to do with the re-work of the Milw Erie-built shell that Gregg Scott  :? :?did some years ago. The original mold has long since gone to pot; plus I made the huge mistake of using MicroMark resin for the original castings. One of my shells simply buckled while sitting on the shelf(mounted on its' chassis) and no amount of persuasion could restore it. So, time to re-do it. By the book, the EB wheelbase is 2' 3" longer than the PA. When I make a new mold for the shell I have to consider how - if possible - to accommodate fitting it onto both the LL and Kato chassis. I found through cursory examination that the Kato chassis would need chamfering of both the nose and back end to fit into a stock A unit shell; even then, I'm not sure if the chassis will fit without completely cutting off about 1/16"(possibly 1/32" from each end. Additionally, the LL shell will need to have the spacer/positioning ribs cut away(this might remove/reduce the chamfering efforts). Curiously, the LL chassis weighs in at 155g; the Kato at 132g.   

Roger Holmes

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1127
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +209
Re: Lifelike Eriebuilt shells on Kato PA chassis?
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2016, 01:29:10 PM »
0
Thanks Roger, you're the only one that actually answered my original question, but you say "long time ago". Did you drop them onto the DCC ready chassis, or an older one?
Thanks, Otto K.

I took a quick look at mine but didn't remove the shell since that would require removing the front coupler screw with grand kids around.  It is definitely the Kato PA with a drop-in decoder.  The shell fit tightly and I don't recall any major mods to either the shell or the chassis.  The B unit is on the original LL dummy plastic frame.

I went through my swap meet boxes looking for the LL Eriebuilt chassis but didn't find it.  One more place to look but maybe I sold it and don't remember--more frequent since my recent Medicare birthday.  I know that I carried it to a lot of shows. I did find two E7A's in Milwaukee Road grey and a LL DL109 in Milwaukee Road in my boxes.

I also took out
Best regards,

Roger

There are 10 kinds of people in the world.  Those who understand the binary system and those who don't.

sd45elect2000

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 424
  • Respect: +35
Re: Lifelike Eriebuilt shells on Kato PA chassis?
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2016, 07:25:30 AM »
0
This thread got me to thinking about how/what I want to do with the re-work of the Milw Erie-built shell that Gregg Scott  :? :?did some years ago. The original mold has long since gone to pot; plus I made the huge mistake of using MicroMark resin for the original castings. One of my shells simply buckled while sitting on the shelf(mounted on its' chassis) and no amount of persuasion could restore it. So, time to re-do it. By the book, the EB wheelbase is 2' 3" longer than the PA. When I make a new mold for the shell I have to consider how - if possible - to accommodate fitting it onto both the LL and Kato chassis. I found through cursory examination that the Kato chassis would need chamfering of both the nose and back end to fit into a stock A unit shell; even then, I'm not sure if the chassis will fit without completely cutting off about 1/16"(possibly 1/32" from each end. Additionally, the LL shell will need to have the spacer/positioning ribs cut away(this might remove/reduce the chamfering efforts). Curiously, the LL chassis weighs in at 155g; the Kato at 132g.

That's a great looking shell, this is what I think Kato should have made for the Olympian Hiawatha.

Randy

Cajonpassfan

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3652
  • Respect: +721
Re: Lifelike Eriebuilt shells on Kato PA chassis?
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2016, 12:31:08 AM »
0
It looks like I'll be able to replace the Kato PA shells with the LL Eriebuilt shells, with a relatively minor mechanism surgery. That means I will have two LL powered split frame chassis (see pics) and three Kato ATSF PA/PB/PA shells available for sale or trade. PM me if interested in either please.
Otto K.

Sokramiketes

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3904
  • Proactive advocate of truthiness
  • Respect: +147
    • Modutrak
Re: Lifelike Eriebuilt shells on Kato PA chassis?
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2016, 08:45:29 AM »
0
This thread got me to thinking about how/what I want to do with the re-work of the Milw Erie-built shell that Gregg Scott  :? :?did some years ago. The original mold has long since gone to pot; plus I made the huge mistake of using MicroMark resin for the original castings. One of my shells simply buckled while sitting on the shelf(mounted on its' chassis) and no amount of persuasion could restore it. So, time to re-do it. By the book, the EB wheelbase is 2' 3" longer than the PA. When I make a new mold for the shell I have to consider how - if possible - to accommodate fitting it onto both the LL and Kato chassis. I found through cursory examination that the Kato chassis would need chamfering of both the nose and back end to fit into a stock A unit shell; even then, I'm not sure if the chassis will fit without completely cutting off about 1/16"(possibly 1/32" from each end. Additionally, the LL shell will need to have the spacer/positioning ribs cut away(this might remove/reduce the chamfering efforts). Curiously, the LL chassis weighs in at 155g; the Kato at 132g.

That's a good looking shell!  Hope you do a refresh.
Mike

www.modutrak.com
Better modeling through peer pressure...