Little help, please: First weathering attempt

[nscaleSPF2]

Jim, I really like the photo above, just before you added the final spray of dullcote.  Most of the effect of the powders seems to have gone away.  What would happen if you did not apply dullcote over the weathering powders?  Would the powders wear off?  Just curious.

[MVW]

Jim, I really like the photo above, just before you added the final spray of dullcote.  Most of the effect of the powders seems to have gone away.  What would happen if you did not apply dullcote over the weathering powders?  Would the powders wear off?  Just curious.

I don't think the powders would wear off much, if at all. But it seems like it's so easy for me to overdo it with the powder that I'm glad the dullcoat tones it down. I can always do additional applications to build up the effect. In fact, I'll probably experiment with that, eventually.

Good to see you kept at it Jim. The last car is a huge improvement and I would not go any further with it.
Try not to use Black too often, Van Dyke Brown is a better choice in most cases.
Rod.

Yeah, if anything, I would rate this degree of weathering to be slightly more than what I'd like to see on the layout, on average. I'll definitely give the brown a try. I have some "raw umber" on hand, and plan to try that alone and mixed with the black on the other side of the car.

Thanks for the encouragement, guys!

Jim

[chicken45]

And after a final shot of dullcoat:




It ain't art, but that's not what I aspire to. I'm just shooting for a way to give my rolling stock a "lived-in" look. I think this will work.

Jim

At first glance, this looked like a weathered freight car (that's a good thing). It was done well so nothing jumped out and screamed "LOOK AT ME! I'M A FLAW!" I kept scrolling down to read the rest of the thread. Then I went back and looked again and that's where I saw the magic and learned what makes this a convincing weather job. Layering and subtleties. I like the subtle textures that the powders bring. I think the dullcoat blended them nicely

Not every car is your star quarterback when it comes to weathering. You can't win a game with just a QB. This is how I feel about weathering. Going "full Mann" on every car isn't something that works for most of us in that we don't model cars at their worst.

I would be proud to have weathered something like this. Can't wait to see more of your "Adventures in Weathering^TM".

[MVW]

Thanks, Josh. I think I mentioned earlier that it was your "adventures in weathering" thread that convinced me I should try wrecking some perfectly good models. 

Seriously, though, I appreciate the tips and encouragement from you and everyone else. That's been a tremendous help.

Now if I can just find a way to salvage those first two UP box cars. 

Jim

[chicken45]

What for you went at it with some alcohol and a rag? Or maybe some paint thinner? Don't soak, just try to scrub off the layers.

[Dave V]

Not every car is your star quarterback when it comes to weathering. You can't win a game with just a QB. This is how I feel about weathering. Going "full Mann" on every car isn't something that works for most of us in that we don't model cars at their worst.

I would be proud to have weathered something like this. Can't wait to see more of your "Adventures in Weathering^TM".

QFT.

I think your final result is excellent and I wouldn't push it any further.  But on to Josh's point, I agree wholeheartedly.  Maybe 80%+ of my equipment has a generic subtle weathering of washes to make them blend in.  The rest are more "creative" using specific proto photos or airbrush techniques.  But overall my goal is that the train itself looks "right."  I recall once seeing an HO train at a train show on some modular layout of all very exquisitely weathered cars, each one a masterpiece.  The overall effect of the train, though, was less convincing.  A long mixed freight should have some much newer, cleaner cars too.

Subtle sometimes is even better.  I think you're in the sweet spot.

[nkalanaga]

Yep, a plain CC boxcar.  It looks like it may have been in that box for a while, too, since the rivets are nice and crisp.  Some of the last ones I bought, in the 80s, were showing signs of tool wear.

[nscaleSPF2]

I don't think the powders would wear off much, if at all. But it seems like it's so easy for me to overdo it with the powder that I'm glad the dullcoat tones it down. I can always do additional applications to build up the effect. In fact, I'll probably experiment with that, eventually.

OK, thanks, Jim.  It's just that dullcote can sometimes obscure fine detail.

An excellent job; I'm glad you stuck with it.

[MVW]

Since the consensus seemed to be that I'd reached the boundaries of good taste on this car, I thought I'd exceed that on its other side. 

Seriously though, in terms of what degree of weathering I'd like to have on the layout, I'd rate the first side here a 5 on a scale of 1 to 7. I wanted to see what a 6 might look like.

First fade:




Dullcoat:




Second fade:




Dullcoat:




For the dark wash, I changed things up a bit. On the right side, I used titanium black and raw umber mixed together. On the left, just raw umber.




And after dullcoat:



I don't mind the degree of weathering, but I think I failed by not doing a better job of blending everything together during the dark wash. I got impatient, and started to wonder if I was overworking it. Turns out I didn't work it enough. I think the most important lesson I've learned so far is NEVER HURRY!

As far as using black in the dark wash, it certainly calls to mind an environment thick with soot, which would still be the case for a 1950s freight car. But raw umber is effective by itself, as well. (Although there was certainly a bit of black still in the brush when I did the left side.) I think I may restrict black's use to cars that are at least 10 years old, or in cases where I want to simulate black paint running, as in the logo on the car above. It may also be best on most roofs. I also have to see what that "van dyke brown" that Santa Fe Guy mentioned is all about.

I'm gonna hit this thing with a little powder to see if I can blend the colors a bit better. I also want to play with the white paint in the logo, to simulate some fading and running. Tried that a bit on the front side, but didn't push it at all.

This experiment is nearly over. In other good news ( ), it appears I may be able to salvage those two UP box cars I nearly ruined. As chicken45 suggested, a little 70% alcohol on a soft rag does wonders.

Jim

[MVW]

Upon further review, I think the mistake was in the blending of both the second fade and the dark wash. I didn't blend the fade well enough, and that was compounded by the later wash. Lesson learned, I think. Seems like the secret might be lots of strokes with a nearly dry brush. I did that on the first side, but not nearly as much on the back.

Jim

[wazzou]

One thing you need to be conscious of and this will take some practice; is making sure that your brush strokes are perfectly vertical, or as near as you can achieve this.
There is a little swirly dervish in your streaks.
Another thing to be aware of is to take a small clean brush and try to take some of the paint from where it accumulates above the grab irons and ladder rungs.
You need to remember that on the prototype, these are supposed to be free standing and that illusion gets a little lost when you have paint piled up in those spots.
Another area you'll want to clean paint from is where it has accumulated on the roof at the top of the sides.
I think you'll want to start with a fresh clean slate when you start to weather the roof and not have to try and conceal or deal with paint that remains from working on the sides.
Both sides show much more promise, but I think I prefer side A at this point.

[chicken45]

+1 for a 5 outta 7 reference. Nice.

As for the car, yes, vertical streaks should not drift horizontally. Use a square or ruler as a guide for your brush. It also looks like some streaks are streaking upwards.
I also think your streaks are too bold. I don't know if you used those W&N oil paints or not, but that is how mine would look before I went back and made them thinner and the long working time helped with this sort of thing.

Still, lessons were learned today and each time you do it, you learn what to do, and what not to do.

[chicken45]

Also, try to hide your technique. Right now, it looks like you took a brush down the car sides. Magic happens when you can't look at a car and say "oh he brushed that on" or "he clearly used a wash because there's still water spots on it".

[MVW]

I think your tips are spot-on, Bryan. Pretty much what I was thinking.

Funny, though. In real life, the car not only passes the three-foot rule, it passes the one-foot rule. You have to get really close to see the problems.

With chalk and dullcoat:



It wouldn't leap out and scream at you in a train, but it looks lousy in a closeup. The non-vertical steaks on the right are the biggest killer, in my book. The left side doesn't look bad.

I also agree that side A is a much better look. I have about 60-70 cars on the layout. More than 90% will get the "side A" treatment, with most probably getting even less weathering. But I can see having 5-6 cars that look like they haven't been shopped in decades. Just have to take my time and do a better job. The process works.

Also, try to hide your technique. Right now, it looks like you took a brush down the car sides. Magic happens when you can't look at a car and say "oh he brushed that on" or "he clearly used a wash because there's still water spots on it".

Exactly. I avoided that on the first side by lots of strokes with a nearly dry brush. Hurried a bit on this side, and ended up paying the price. Oh well, this car was never destined for the layout. But it's been a great learning experience.

Jim

[MVW]

Rescue attempt on one of the first two sacrificial UP box cars:

After clean-up using 70% alcohol:






And after "the treatment":





There were a couple spots of powder that just weren't going to come up, not without ruining the original paint job. (It was surprising how easily the paint started to strip.) Anyway, good enough.

Jim