Looking for the "perfect" camera (for my needs)

[Cajonpassfan]

Guys, thanks a lot! I asked for thoughtful responses, and I got them! Thank you all.
I learned a lot, both from your postings, and from having to think hard through what I really want/need. It's. really appreciated!

So, let's start with Ron: thanks! But what kind of phone camera do you use? I have an iPhone6 and find its depth of field disappointing, see pics below. Thanks for the useful links, and I do like your pictures, it's just that my phone camera is not "goodenuff".

Peteski, thanks for your insight, and you've hit the nail on the head in reference to software and "stacking"; while it is a very useful tool that can produce some amazing images, it is labor intensive. I'm not looking for super high quality centerfold-typel photos; just quick but solid images to track progress of my layout and projects to post here and perhaps to illustrate an article or two. (Now that I just retired, I'm thinking of finally starting that layout engineering thread on my long under construction Cajon layout )

Bob, what can I say, you always have a lot of thoughtful insight, and I do love the pics you used to illustrate your point. That USRA Mike shot is amazing! A small camera that can get "into" the action would be great. I do have a good quality (though aging) SLR Nikon camera and if and when I want to take that "special" shot and dick around with stacking multiple images, I can do that. I'll look into your recommendation.

Jim, thanks for the links, very informative! But maybe your $100 Nikon is better than my $119 Cannon for N scale modeling; I'm not really happy with mine. But than again, it's probably 8 years old, way past its prime, like me

Thanks again for your feedback everyone, we'll see where this takes me.
Regards, Otto K.

PS: these two shots of my under construction San Bernardino yard were taken by my iPhone 6 camera; DOF not quite what I'm looking for.

[Santa Fe Guy]

Hi Otto.
    Boy you sure have spelt out some neat specs re your requirements.
Ron and I are in sync as we both have known one another since 1991 and try to take good shots of our own and other friends layouts (some of which you would have seen in his post). Over the past 5 or so years I have I have gradually upgraded (depending on saved brownie points) my cameras. I have gone from a Canon EOS 400D, EOS 650D and now a full frame Canon EOS 6D. I have purchased some good lenses with the newbie and whilst expensive trying to afford a lens about F2.8 24mm to 50mm is the best way to go if you want good crisp landscape and portrait pics. These cameras will go to about F22 for good depth of field and are very fast.
    Lately both Ron and I have been shooting scenes on our layouts with our smart phones. I have a new Samsung S5 (all I could afford) and the dept of field is extraordinary good for these uses. We have both been pleasantly surprised just how good they are even hand held.
Focus stacking Model RR shots is great if you have time and they look stupendous when done well.
There is a lot of stuff on the web about comparing one camera to another so take a look there as well as the good stuff written here.
    You might even be able to hire a camera to try before you purchase.
Lots to consider my friend.
Rod.

[Cajonpassfan]

Lol Rod, I might just have to go down under to "hire" one of these little guys
Good to hear from you again! Hope you're doing well?
Best, Otto

[Ron McF]

But what kind of phone camera do you use?

Otto,

my phone is an old HTC model that I got 'second hand' when my wife upgraded to a new phone about 3 years ago.  She has upgraded again since then, and has given me her old phone (again) but I haven't switched to it yet. I have the camera set to the highest resolution (2592 x 1552), and use IrfanView to crop the pictures and then reduce the image and file sizes before uploading them to my blog.  Keep in mind that not all the pics come out as I'd like, especially if the layout is not very well lit.  But I take a lot of photos.

Regards,
Ron

[Cajonpassfan]

Well, but I bet Ron, it has a teeny sensor and hence good DOF...we're back to my dilemma again. 
Thanks, Otto

[nscaleSPF2]

Jim, ....  But maybe your $100 Nikon is better than my $119 Cannon for N scale modeling; ....

Maybe, maybe not, Otto.  One of the "tricks" that I use is have as much light on the subject as possible, so that the camera can use a smaller aperture, which increases depth of field.  Also make sure that the light is directed to show off the detail that you want (like in the shadows). This very often means that I have to reshoot the photo after I see what it looks like on the computer.  I also use a tripod or brace the camera against something solid.  This allows a slower shutter speed, which will decrease the aperture even more.

If I can make a suggestion, you may want to experiment with your existing equipment to find out what its limitations are.  This will help you to decide what specs your new camera will have.  Perhaps the original question should have been "What photo techniques are you using?" rather than "What camera are you using?"

[Cajonpassfan]

Jim, all excellent points. When I have time, I will attempt to reshoot the same two frames I posted earlier with supplemental lighting and a mini tripod to see the difference in DOF if any. Thanks for the suggestion.
Otto

[nscaleSPF2]

Jim, all excellent points. When I have time, I will attempt to reshoot the same two frames I posted earlier with supplemental lighting and a mini tripod to see the difference in DOF if any. Thanks for the suggestion.
Otto

OK, good, Otto.  One other thing I forgot to mention is that photo editing software can make a big difference.  I'm talking about the simple program that is either already on your computer, or that came with your camera.  The ability to crop, change contrast, color balance and light intensity can improve almost any photo, especially those taken with point-and-shooters.  Like they say, practice makes perfect, or at least better.

Best of luck.

[Ron McF]

Jim, all excellent points. When I have time, I will attempt to reshoot the same two frames I posted earlier with supplemental lighting and a mini tripod to see the difference in DOF if any. Thanks for the suggestion.
Otto

Otto,

please let us know how this works out.

I just did some Googling and turned up a multitude of online articles about controlling the DoF on an iPhone. Apart from some pretty spiffy inbuilt features (compared to my ancient HTC phone), there are also many third-party apps that will allow you to adjust the DoF (or at least, to 'blur' the stuff that you want to be out of focus.)

Interestingly though, the articles I looked at all seemed to agree that the "problem" with the iPhone is that DoF is too deep (as you might expect with a phone camera's small sensor), not too shallow. This leads me to wonder, therefore, whether your problem is indeed inadequate lighting as suggested by Jim rather than an inherent issue with the phone's DoF.

Regards,
Ron

(Edited in response to Peteski's post.)

[peteski]

Interestingly though, the articles I looked at all seemed to agree that the "problem" with the iPhone is that DoF is too deep, not too shallow (as you might expect with a phone camera's small sensor.)

Don't you have this backwards?  Small image sensor and the corresponding lens will have short focal distance which according to Jim (and my observations) results in a wide DoF.

[robert3985]

Otto.  You need a new camera.  Your phone (or any other phone camera) ain't gonna cut the mustard.  Period. 

One of the problems you have is the desire to have a camera that takes excellent model train shots, and also is a camera that you can take on trips and hikes for general photography.  Cheapo cameras and substandard phone cameras aren't going to do the trick.

Sure, there are workarounds for fully automatic only cameras with zero manual control, up to a point, but your question, and your parameters did not mention "cheap" as one of your druthers.

The main thing you seem to be stuck on is DOF and having a small sensor to increase it.  Although DOF is critical for model railroad photography, particularly if you wanna get "into" the railroad action on your layout, rather than just taking documentary shots of your overall progress, there are other necessities you need also.  One of these things that will drastically enhance those photos you want to enhance, is the ability to shoot uncompressed RAW files, and a photo manipulation program that can take advantage of all the info inherent in these files.  JPEG's just don't cut it for "good" photography...which is something that is well-known among pro photographers, and nearly totally discounted by those who don't make money from their photos.

This means that in general photography, even the pros use semi-automatic features on their pro cameras, such as being able to choose between M (Manual), A (Aperture Priority), S (Shutter Priority), and P (Program), depending on the circumstance within which they are taking photos.  For model railroading photos, focus and DOF are the most important things to control, as when we're taking stills and the trains aren't moving, then we don't have any motion to stop.  So being able to control the aperture is paramount...so, you'd best use shooting mode A (Aperture Priority) for most of your model railroad photography, and also for scenery, family portraits, groups shots, architecture, product shots, documentary progress shots, controlling your DOF by being able to choose what your camera's lens aperture is.

In some model railroad photos, you don't want everything to be in focus. Being able to control your DOF from shallow to deep is essential for both model railroad photography to general photography, which is what you want your camera for.  Having a camera with a teeny sensor and a high f-stop lens gets you deep DOF, but what if you want shallow DOF?  No way is an f3.5 or f5.6 lens combined with a teeny sensor going to let you knock out a background and/or foreground to isolate your subject if you want or need to do that.

Additionally, phone cams don't zoom.  You are stuck with the focal length Apple or Samsung, or any other phone manufacturer has decided you need.  Depending on what I'm doing in a model railroad photo session, I am constantly zooming in and out to get the composition I like.  A good lens that goes from wide angle to moderate telephoto is a substantial asset both for model photography and general photography, and, let's face it, phone camera lenses are far inferior to lenses manufactured by the major camera manufacturers.

Being able to adjust your white balance, or modify it post-camera, having low noise and distortion, being able to adjust color saturation and contrast to your likes and controlling the ISO for the least amount of noise...all of these features are necessary for good model railroad photography, and phone cameras don't have any of them...just presets which may or may not give you some control of a few of these things using workarounds.

So, again I would suggest you seriously consider the Nikon DL24-85 Premium Compact...the very latest compact from Nikon which is going to be vastly superior to any phone camera or cheap point-and-shoot automatic in both image quality and being capable of allowing you to control composition with a zoom lens and the camera's compact dimensions.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Ron McF]

Don't you have this backwards?

Yeah Peteski.  Put it down to poor grammer or perhaps a misplaced comma.  What I meant to say was:

"Interestingly though, the articles I looked at all seemed to agree that the "problem" with the iPhone is that DoF is too deep (as you might expect with a phone camera's small sensor) not too shallow. (as you might expect with a phone camera's small sensor.)"

I've edited my post.  Sorry for any confusion.

Regards,
Ron

[robert3985]

I just found this, thanks to Tom Mann.  Although it doesn't fit Otto's strict and long list of givens and druthers for his "ideal" model railroad/general use photography as far as size is concerned, it certainly fits the bill for those who may be looking for an advanced, interchangeable-lens camera from a well-respected camera manufacturer that specifically has unique features designed specifically for enhancing DOF.

The in-camera focus stacking feature is remarkable, and greatly enhances this camera as a prime consideration for any model railroader who wants a primary camera to shoot model railroad photos as well as for general photography.

Look here:  https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=40274.0

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[robert3985]

!!!THE PERFECT CAMERA WHICH FITS OTTO'S GIVENS AND DRUTHERS LIST!!!

After reading the link in Tom Mann's post, it is apparent that the focus stacking feature for the OM-D E-M1 is achieved through a firmware update.

Upon closer inspection, the author who is commenting on that firmware update says he has used the focus stacking features in lesser Olympus cameras - referring to the Olympus Tough TG-3 and TG-4 cameras.  I googled "Olympus tough tg-4 review" and went to DPReview's highly respected site and got this: https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympus-tough-tg-4-review

The Olympus Tough TG-4 has an excellent zoom lens, with the ability to add both a fisheye or extended telephoto to it, has built-in focus stacking and a super macro mode which is called "microscope mode", is shock resistant, water-resistant to 50 feet and you can run over it with your car and it keeps on clickin'.  Additionally, it will shoot RAW files for the very best photo quality and photo manipulation possibilities.  It's also small enough to slip in a pocket.

Bad news is that it doesn't appear to have a manual mode, but it does allow aperture priority shooting but with a choice of only three apertures.

Unknowns include whether "microscope" mode works at any focal length, meaning at both wide and telephoto focal lengths.  It also incorporates an LED ring flash, which could be invaluable for fill lighting on model railroad subjects..but, I don't know for sure.

Additional plus points is that his camera earns a "Gold Award" at DPReviews and is demonstrably superior in photo quality compared to its direct competitors.

Its MSRP is less than 400 bucks and, it also has a distinctly tank-like macho look!

Sounds like a winner to me...

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[tom mann]

Could we use a photography board here?  Tips/reviews/technique discussion/critique...