Available grain service hoppers in early 70s?

[Specter3]

As I close in on module functionality for my ADM grain loader I am wondering what readily available covered hoppers would be seen in the southeast in 1974? I have recently picked up on more of the reporting marks and labels that existed in that time(ACI labels and single COTS panels) so I have been looking at those in pictures. But not every paint scheme for a car that existed back then is viable either. Anyway, I am not looking for an exhaustive list, just what pops to mind.

Thanks!

[Blazeman]

Thinking back to college days in the early 70's, don't recall seeing many if any covered hoppers rolling through Tuscaloosa on the SOU or the GM&O.

Not knowing what RR you are portraying, just from where the tracks went, one would have SLSF and IC/ICG cars. And SOU was very big in moving grain to develop the feed lots in the SE (which generated more traffic for them).

[asarge]

The different types to look at that have been produced in N scale are mainly Pullman Standard with the 4000's, 4427's, 4740's and a few 4750's and ACF 4600 and 4650's. Also, the Magor's from Micro-Trains would work. As far as schemes go, there are too many out there. I would tell you that for that time, there were not a huge amount of private owner scheme's at that times, so you may want to stick with railroad owned cars. Things like Southern, Frisco, L&N along with BN large Logo woudl be good starting points. I don't know if many or any elevators and feed mills in the south shiiped or received in Grain Boxcars but I would think it would be very few.

[Specter3]

Thank you for your information. This module lands in my primary modeling period of Southern Railway 1974ish.
SD40-2s are new and they are squeezing the last bit of utility out of some F7s and RS3s. Many, many home road cars with just the occasional run through power on loan or repaying a loan from somewhere else. I remember watching trains in Tuscumbia AL just west of Sheffield yard and seeing the occasional UP and SP power. I know MP ran a train into there as well.

[jmlaboda - RIP]

The Concor/Roco "Jumbo Hopper" is similar to various early PS aluminum 100T hoppers that started to show on various roads back in the mid-60s.  While not as well done as newer cars it is, never the less, a great starting point for a hopper type that was very, very common back then.  It is similar to Southern's Big John hoppers to name a more familiar type.

http://www.spookshow.net/freight/rocojumbo.html

[cjm413]

The different types to look at that have been produced in N scale are mainly Pullman Standard with the 4000's, 4427's, 4740's and a few 4750's and ACF 4600 and 4650's. Also, the Magor's from Micro-Trains would work. As far as schemes go, there are too many out there. I would tell you that for that time, there were not a huge amount of private owner scheme's at that times, so you may want to stick with railroad owned cars. Things like Southern, Frisco, L&N along with BN large Logo woudl be good starting points. I don't know if many or any elevators and feed mills in the south shiiped or received in Grain Boxcars but I would think it would be very few.

PS 4000: BLMA/Atlas, Exactrail
PS 4427 (early): Exactrail, Walthers
PS 4427 (late): Microtrains, Trainworx
PS 4740: Precision Masters/Red Caboose
PS 4750: Intermountain (NOTE- I don't count the Precision Masters Red Caboose model since it started off as a correct, but crude Richmond Tank Car 4750 and was later modified into a half- (and still crude) PS 4750)

ACF 4600: Future Athearn model
ACF 4650: Micro-Trains, Intermountain
ACF 5250 (early): Atlas/Roco, Bachmann, Model Power (all 3 would need trough hatches and gravity outlets)
ACF 5250 (late): Atlas Trainman (also needs trough hatches and gravity outlets)

Others:
Micro-Trains Evans 4780 (often with Magor 4750 paint schemes)
AHM/Con-Cor 4 bay car: it's closer to a stretched out PS-2 than any of the Magor cars, but for the lack of any known PS- built cars that match this model...

[Mark5]

AHM/Con-Cor 4 bay car: it's closer to a stretched out PS-2 than any of the Magor cars, but for the lack of any known PS- built cars that match this model...

Agreed. Closest thing I have seen to the AHM/Concor(Roco) model is this Ortner 5250 4 bay built for N&W (HC16):

https://imagebase.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns1976.jpeg

N&W built similar cars in the Roanoke shops a couple years later (HC65, HC66).

[wcfn100]

I would tell you that for that time, there were not a huge amount of private owner scheme's at that times, so you may want to stick with railroad owned cars.

I'm not sure about that.  My 1969 ORER shows 3000 private (TLDX) 4427's alone.  That's as much or more than most railroads.   


Jason

[randgust]

A little history here - if you remember, the first huge Soviet Wheat Deal (depending on your politics, also known as the 'great grain robbery') was in 1972.   The export of wheat to gulf ports was simply massive, and a lot of it moved by rail.   Santa Fe, in particular, was getting 100-ton grain hoppers as fast as they could be built.  I think a lot of other wheat-belt carriers saw the same surge.  Also, at least on the Santa Fe, it was the beginning of the unit train movement to try to maximize car utilization.  The railroads prioritization led to car shortages for some shippers, which in turn, fed the need for grain coops to lease their own car fleets to ensure they had at least some cars under their control.  And that's never stopped since, either.    If you're into history as it impacts modeling, here's the GAO report that discussed grain car shortages in the 70's and the underlying data - 100-tonners to move grain was the big problem  http://gao.gov/assets/140/130892.pdf   The stupid-simple solution that emerged was that pools of customers organized to control their own leased cars, and the railroads simply started to reduce their fleets to baseline needs.  That all came out of this mess.

If you're a Santa Fe nut, that same 1972 year was the beginning of the "Santa Fe" billboard scheme on covered hoppers, anything prior to '72 was in the small square herald in the corner.    So if you're seeing a 100-ton covered hopper with that scheme on it, you're pre-72, and a freshly painted "Santa Fe" billboard also dates it.

You won't see this on the trainscon - it was a gulf ports phenomenon in the early 70's.  And a lot of the power was dredged-up, flatland F-units and CF7's, grinding it out:   http://www.railpictures.net/photo/519198/    You can sure see a lot of grimy  ATSF 100-tonners on that shot, look mostly PS.

In the early 70's, one of the major funnels was the BN-ATSF line from Superior, NE to Kansas and south - that was the last great show of F-units on unit grain trains headed to the gulf. 

A couple 'out of the box' cars appropriate to that are (believe it or not) the Bachmann ACF center-flow covered hopper in the small herald brown scheme (probably with wrong roof hatches though) and the BLMA PS-4000.   I've decalled up a bunch of hoppers myself, but certainly ATSF started the 100-ton grain hopper binge in earnest in the 70's.   

So if you're in the southeast, and designing an operating plan in the 70's, if you had 100-tonners, load 'em up and send them to Houston, the Russians are waiting for you.

[jmlaboda - RIP]

Agreed. Closest thing I have seen to the AHM/Concor(Roco) model is this Ortner 5250 4 bay built for N&W (HC16):

https://imagebase.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns1976.jpeg

Again quite close to the Southern's first group of Big John hoppers as well, 8075 - 8574... mainly some differences in the end slope sheets in regards to how they were braced...

http://rr-fallenflags.org/sout/sou-lo8138ads.jpg
http://rr-fallenflags.org/sout/sou8536amh.jpg

Seaboard Air Line also received this type of hopper from Magor, numbered 35000 - 35024, which became SCL 835000 - 835024 and later SBD 252690 - 252712.  Only two cars actually received CSX paint.  These cars are discussed in the 1st Quarter 2015 SEABOARD - COAST LINE MODELER, which can be downloaded from the link below...

http://s-clmodeler.aclsal.org/currentissue/sclm24.pdf

[Mark5]

Seaboard Air Line also received this type of hopper from Magor, numbered 35000 - 35024, which became SCL 835000 - 835024 and later SBD 252690 - 252712.  Only two cars actually received CSX paint.  These cars are discussed in the 1st Quarter 2015 SEABOARD - COAST LINE MODELER, which can be downloaded from the link below...

http://s-clmodeler.aclsal.org/currentissue/sclm24.pdf

Yeah, these were foobed my MTL with one of the early releases on their Evans car:

https://www.nscalesupply.com/MTL/MTL-09900020.html

None of these cars actually match the AHM/Concor car, if I get some time I'll post some pics of the relevant models to give some visual feeling for the size.

Mark

[jmlaboda - RIP]

Yeah, these were foobed my MTL with one of the early releases on their Evans car:

https://www.nscalesupply.com/MTL/MTL-09900020.html

Actually they are not that far off of the later orders, which were a bit smaller.  The biggest thing I can see right off the bat is the trough style hatches instead of the round individual hatches.  Not sure if it would be possible to change such but otherwise it looks fairly close otherwise.

Oops... checked the shot of a model of the later cars and they did have the trough hatches on the roof... Thanks SEABOARD - COAST LINE MODELER.

[Spikre]

 
  unit Grain trains started in the late 60s.
  one of the 1st was IC's "Rent A Train"'
  it got a lot of publicity,then on its 1st run had
  a crash with another train,and plenty of derailed cars.
  cant recall the Grain Company that rented the train ??
  Big John:
  a problem with these cars were 4 Separate Sealed Inner
  Compartments.this meant each could carry a different load.
  that went against the Unit Train Concept of plenty of 1 Load.
  Southern fought that in Court for years,but don't think they
  got the Lowered rates for Multi Commodities shipped.
  Grain Cars;
     may have 2,3,or 4 Bays,but above the bays are Open,and not
  suitable for Multi Commodities,a differeance from the Southern
  Big John type cars.
     by the mid 70s Unit Grain trains were very common,due to the
   ICC allowing the Rate Changes to make the trains Profitable.
       Spikre
       

[Bob Bufkin]

Not sure what type these are but most are N&W hoppers and are loaded with corn going to the Ruskies during the 70s.

[cjm413]

A little history here - if you remember, the first huge Soviet Wheat Deal (depending on your politics, also known as the 'great grain robbery') was in 1972.   The export of wheat to gulf ports was simply massive, and a lot of it moved by rail.   Santa Fe, in particular, was getting 100-ton grain hoppers as fast as they could be built.  I think a lot of other wheat-belt carriers saw the same surge.  Also, at least on the Santa Fe, it was the beginning of the unit train movement to try to maximize car utilization.  The railroads prioritization led to car shortages for some shippers, which in turn, fed the need for grain coops to lease their own car fleets to ensure they had at least some cars under their control.  And that's never stopped since, either.    If you're into history as it impacts modeling, here's the GAO report that discussed grain car shortages in the 70's and the underlying data - 100-tonners to move grain was the big problem  http://gao.gov/assets/140/130892.pdf   The stupid-simple solution that emerged was that pools of customers organized to control their own leased cars, and the railroads simply started to reduce their fleets to baseline needs.  That all came out of this mess.

If you're a Santa Fe nut, that same 1972 year was the beginning of the "Santa Fe" billboard scheme on covered hoppers, anything prior to '72 was in the small square herald in the corner.    So if you're seeing a 100-ton covered hopper with that scheme on it, you're pre-72, and a freshly painted "Santa Fe" billboard also dates it.

You won't see this on the trainscon - it was a gulf ports phenomenon in the early 70's.  And a lot of the power was dredged-up, flatland F-units and CF7's, grinding it out:   http://www.railpictures.net/photo/519198/    You can sure see a lot of grimy  ATSF 100-tonners on that shot, look mostly PS.

In the early 70's, one of the major funnels was the BN-ATSF line from Superior, NE to Kansas and south - that was the last great show of F-units on unit grain trains headed to the gulf. 

A couple 'out of the box' cars appropriate to that are (believe it or not) the Bachmann ACF center-flow covered hopper in the small herald brown scheme (probably with wrong roof hatches though) and the BLMA PS-4000.   I've decalled up a bunch of hoppers myself, but certainly ATSF started the 100-ton grain hopper binge in earnest in the 70's.   

So if you're in the southeast, and designing an operating plan in the 70's, if you had 100-tonners, load 'em up and send them to Houston, the Russians are waiting for you.

On the subject of stand-ins for 4 bay aluminum covered hoppers, ATSF also had a pair of Magor 4948's (Ga-126).