Locomotives with Molded-In Details or Pre-Drilled to Add Details?

[Kisatchie]

Would anyone refuse to buy a locomotive because of dimples?

I wouldn't buy one. I want molded-in details that won't break off, as I said earlier.


Hmm... I think dimples
are cute on a baby
orangutan...

[Maletrain]

Put me in the camp for dimples and a separate pack of add-on details.  And, having molded-on bolt details for the bases of the grabs is nice.

My thinking is that I may want to disassemble to mess with a decoder or speaker and tweek mechanical things to get them running smoothly before I need to be careful of the fragile details.  A jig for drilling would be great, so that I could drill one hole, put a piece of wire through it and the jig, and then drill the additional hole(s) to ensure proper spacing/alignment.

[Rossford Yard]

None of my Kato dash9's ever had extra grabirons. Are you thinking of the Atlas SD60M?
It has been a few years since I owned any is this a recent development?

Pretty sure its the Dash 9, but I haven't bought one of those for about 10 years, and they may be attached on the newer versions, not sure.

That said, I may be wrong on the details, but remain convinced of my main point.  I believe most modelers prefer as close to RTR as they can get, especially in N.  As someone said, not sure this group is representative of what the majority would buy.

[coosvalley]

I wouldn't buy one. I want molded-in details that won't break off, as I said earlier.


Hmm... I think dimples
are cute on a baby
orangutan...

Ummm, I don't think dimples can break!!

[cjm413]

Pre-drilled (or dimples) provide the option of upgrading to a "rivet counter" at a later date and negate the extra costs of molding these details in place.

[Kisatchie]

Ummm, I don't think dimples can break!!

No, but the only reason they're there is to be drilled out and fine details added, which can bend out of shape/break.


Hmm... I wonder if Kiz
has dimples... he has a
beard, so I can't tell...

[Missaberoad]

To expand on my point, I wonder if people who dont care for fine detail would even notice the absence...
Lots of people happily ran Athearn HO locomotives without grab irons...
To use @scaletrains phrase a product that makes life easier for modelers would be game changing. 

[jagged ben]

The most recent run or two of the Kato Dash9 came with the front inner handrails installed, but earlier runs didn't.  So Ryan's memory is not faulty.  And I agree with his reasoning, too, the whole idea of the 'Operator' line, as the name suggests, is that you don't pay a premium for appearance if your interest is operations.

I'll tell you what would cost everyone the most, which would be is Scaletrains tooled two separate shells, one with molded on detail and one without.  So I'd discourage that line of though.  And I really think that separate scale grabs are not something that will get too easily damaged if installed correctly.   One could even push them all the way in so they amount to looking similar to molded-on.  Modeler's choice.

I also like Ed's idea of the molded on bolts above the dimples.

[djconway]

A lot of it depends on weather you are running or watching trains.  I have operated on layouts with almost no scenery but you don't notice because you are so focused on making setouts, piickups, or meeting other trains.

[coosvalley]

No, but the only reason they're there is to be drilled out and fine details added, which can bend out of shape/break.


Hmm... I wonder if Kiz
has dimples... he has a
beard, so I can't tell...

But if you don't choose to add them, they obviously won't break!...


Athearn's blue box GP-38-2 was the first HO loco with dimples(that I know of) way back in the 80's, and without the grabs nobody seemed to notice, and they made it SO EASY to add separate grabs I eventually upgraded all of mine(before I switched to N scale).

Bachmann n scale Gp-7s dont have molded on grabs, and I don't think most even notice

Perhaps there should be three versions:

1. The "out of the box" version for those who don't care for details
2. The "upgrader" version with dimples or pre drilled holes
3. The "I like details but don't want to add them myself " version with everything installed

I don't see this as likely, however. It does seem to me from a MFR's point of view the second and third options would be best, as the shell could be the same,  and either the factory or the user can add the details..

FVM got it right with their GP-60.....I hope others soon follow...

[Kisatchie]

But if you don't choose to add them, they obviously won't break!...

I don't want dimples where there should be details... molded in details! When I was new to model railroading in HO scale, I never noticed Athearn locos didn't have grabirons. But when I got some experience, I did notice and had to add grabirons, liftrings, etc that the locos should have had. That was a pain in the neck.


Hmm... I'm going to get
a beer and some termites...

[ljudice]

You guys should spend some time behind the counter at a train shop and try to convince the AVERAGE customer to buy a $120 model which requires them to finish it using tweezers, glue and a magnifying glass.

[Missaberoad]

You guys should spend some time behind the counter at a train shop and try to convince the AVERAGE customer to buy a $120 model which requires them to finish it using tweezers, glue and a magnifying glass.

My first job was behind the counter of a hobby shop and I still think the AVERAGE customer wouldnt notice or worry about it...

For example the Walthers passenger cars came with no road numbers and decals, most people ran them happily without the numbers, but it allowed modelers so inclined to go the extra step...

[CBQ Fan]

I am personally not a big fan of a lot of spending a ton of money and having to put on a bunch of detail parts.  I don't mind the dimples.  I have custom projects on one end where it is modeling intensive but on the other end I don't like messing around with Mickey Mouse stuff for a handful of details. I just don't have time for little projects like that.  It really breaks down to the price point to me in the end.  Are we talking Atlas Trainman pricing or Broadway Ltd pricing??

[ntex]

How about moulded on details that release from the shell once you drill through the dimples?