New Product

[C855B]

Mmmm. Quite pricey: http://www.trainworld.com/manufacturers/esu/esu-dcc-systems-and-accessories/esu-50200-ecos-2-central-unit-dcc-command-station/

The Roco Z21 is also not for the thin-of-wallet: http://www.dcctrain.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=6182

The overall message is the Europeans might have niftier systems, but you are most definitely going to pay dearly for it.

However, the Digikeijs multi-bus box (a Rosetta Stone for MRR?) is an impressive feat, and priced about right. But it's risky, from the support and upgrade standpoint. And it's already obsolete - no LCC/CANbus. Oops.

[fcwilt]

Mmmm. Quite pricey: http://www.trainworld.com/manufacturers/esu/esu-dcc-systems-and-accessories/esu-50200-ecos-2-central-unit-dcc-command-station/

The Roco Z21 is also not for the thin-of-wallet: http://www.dcctrain.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=6182

The overall message is the Europeans might have niftier systems, but you are most definitely going to pay dearly for it.

However, the Digikeijs multi-bus box (a Rosetta Stone for MRR?) is an impressive feat, and priced about right. But it's risky, from the support and upgrade standpoint. And it's already obsolete - no LCC/CANbus. Oops.

Yes they seem to be more expensive in general.

But if you were to gather together the parts needed to (more or less) duplicate the functions and features using, say, Digitrax, perhaps the price would not seem so bad?

I will have to ask the owner of Digikeijs to see what plans, if any, he has for the LCC and CAN buses.

While I do not know the details of those two buses it may be possible to make a translator from them to an existing DR5000 bus.

Thanks for the info.

[jagged ben]

But if you were to gather together the parts needed to (more or less) duplicate the functions and features using, say, Digitrax, perhaps the price would not seem so bad?

Exactly what I was going to say. 

Add up Command station+ USB interface+plus wireless router+computer to run JMRI. 
Or alternatively, command station+ throttle(s)+however many UR receiver components you need.

If you go the first route, the costs are not a whole lot cheaper, and only if you use your regular computer or have an extra lying around.
If you go the second route, it's only possibly cheaper if you have a small layout with one operator.  It's more expensive for any layout that will have more than one operator, or any large layout requiring multiple URs.  For a large club layout it's way more expensive.

[C855B]

And I will counter with:

  DCS100 - http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Digitrax-DCS100-LocoNet-Command-Station-Booster-5-p/dig-dcs100.htm
  PR3 - http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Digitrax-PR3X-Decoder-Programmer-p/dig-pr3xtra.htm
  Raspberry Pi 3B - http://www.alliedelec.com/raspberry-pi-raspberry-pi-3/70816528/

The Raspberry is also the wireless router. Total, plus $9 for the Raspberry case: $340. $340 << $699. Bring your own smartphone, or spring for a new Android tablet:

  https://www.amazon.com/RCA-Voyager-Tablet-Android-Black/dp/B00Z7ZACEM/ref=sr_1_3/187-0787044-0912039?ie=UTF8&qid=1467661021

for a total outlay of $378. This gets a fully-expandable DCC system. Not exactly turnkey, but getting the DT-4xx throttle paradigm out of the equation helps matters immensely.

That exercise, however, underscores what a bargain the plug-n-play WiCommand system is. Get your taste of wireless DCC for $120, and if you want to graduate to more capability, you haven't lost a lot.

[peteski]

Speaking of European DCc systems, Zimo also had a high-end DCC system (priced accordingly).  Like others have said, when it comes to ergonomic design, Europeans are way ahead of US DCC companies.

While the bargain-priced assembly of components Mike mentioned seems tempting, I think we have to realize than most likely the majority of model railroaders getting into DCC do not want to also become computer (hardware and software) geeks.  This kludging of various components is not something they want to do.  They just want to buy a system, plug it into their layout and be able to run their model trains.  They would rather build models and scenic their layout than spend time cobbling together various pieces of hardware and software, hoping that it works.  Sure some modelers find this kind of thing a challange, but I think those are more of an exception than a rule.

[fcwilt]

  DCS100 - http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Digitrax-DCS100-LocoNet-Command-Station-Booster-5-p/dig-dcs100.htm
  PR3 - http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Digitrax-PR3X-Decoder-Programmer-p/dig-pr3xtra.htm
  Raspberry Pi 3B - http://www.alliedelec.com/raspberry-pi-raspberry-pi-3/70816528/

The Raspberry is also the wireless router. Total, plus $9 for the Raspberry case: $340. $340 << $699.

Interesting. I'm guessing you would use JMRI to provide the WiFi throttles?

Where does the $699 price come from? My Z21 was $400 plus shipping.

The setup you describe does get you a working DCC system but it doesn't provide all of the capabilities of the Z21. And you have to deal with JMRI to configure things, correct?

Frederick

[C855B]

$699 was for the ESU 52000. I found the Z21 in the U.S. for $489, but I didn't shop all that hard.

For a basic throttle-interface-only setup, JMRI is easy to configure. Start DecoderPro, tell it what controller you have, enable the WiThrottle server... done. It'll identify itself when you start the WiThrottle app, so select your server and you're ready to go. Where JMRI comes-up short in this scenario is the overhead to program decoders, which you can't do from the phone. Not quite as obtuse as a DT-402, etc., but, still, a learning curve, and without experience you don't immediately know which of the many fields can be left blank (...most of them...) in the programming pages.

[fcwilt]

For a basic throttle-interface-only setup, JMRI is easy to configure. Start DecoderPro, tell it what controller you have, enable the WiThrottle server... done.ng pages.

I did not realize that the WiThrottle app only seems to work with Apple devices.

So that would be another "plus" for the Z21, the app for it works with Apple and Android devices.

With the "premium" for the Z21 appearing to be appx $60 to $150, over the system you described, it seems a pretty good value for a more versatile system that can do what the "JMRI" system can do and a good deal more.

Frederick

[peteski]

Fredrick, I can't imagine why someone down-voted your post above.    What you wrote seems perfectly reasonable and informational. I up-voted it.

[reinhardtjh]

I did not realize that the WiThrottle app only seems to work with Apple devices.

WiThrottle is the iOS app, EngineDriver is the Android.  The iOS app works on most iPods, iPads and iPhones.  The Android app works on a multitude of Android based phones and tablets.  In JMRI it's call the WiThrottle server because originally it was written for an iOS app, but then an Android app was written as well.  Basic information here: JMRI: WiFi Throttle

[fcwilt]

WiThrottle is the iOS app, EngineDriver is the Android.  The iOS app works on most iPods, iPads and iPhones.  The Android app works on a multitude of Android based phones and tablets.  In JMRI it's call the WiThrottle server because originally it was written for an iOS app, but then an Android app was written as well.  Basic information here: JMRI: WiFi Throttle

Interesting. Still having two different apps from two different vendors is not the best situation to have to deal with.

[fcwilt]

Fredrick, I can't imagine why someone down-voted your post above.    What you wrote seems perfectly reasonable and informational. I up-voted it.

Not sure what you mean by "down-voted" - how is that done?

Frederick

[peteski]

Not sure what you mean by "down-voted" - how is that done?

Frederick

See https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=34118.0 (they just changed "karma" to "respect")  Members reading your posts can rate you posts positive or negative (think Facebook with "like" and "dislike" buttons).  Total of those votes shows up as a respect rating for you.

[fcwilt]

See https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=34118.0 (they just changed "karma" to "respect")  Members reading your posts can rate you posts positive or negative (think Facebook with "like" and "dislike" buttons).  Total of those votes shows up as a respect rating for you.

I think this is the first forum I've run into that has such a feature.

But I must be dense because I don't see any "thumbs up/down" buttons or the like.

Frederick

[peteski]

I think this is the first forum I've run into that has such a feature.

But I must be dense because I don't see any "thumbs up/down" buttons or the like.

Frederick

I just used Facebook as an example.  Each post (which is not yours) has up and down arrows in the upper right corner. You click on them to either up- or down-vote it. The current "score" is also shown there.

Same here - this is the only forum I know of using that "feature".