Author Topic: Best Of Spokane, Portland and Seattle (SP&S) 0-6-0 Project  (Read 46872 times)

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nkalanaga

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Re: Spokane, Portland and Seattle (SP&S) 0-6-0 Project
« Reply #510 on: September 05, 2018, 01:41:26 AM »
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Max:  My mistake, it got Peoples Choice.  It looks like Best in Show was about the only thing it didn't win. 

Does anyone know what did get Best in Show?  It must have been fantastic!
N Kalanaga
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u18b

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Re: Spokane, Portland and Seattle (SP&S) 0-6-0 Project
« Reply #511 on: September 05, 2018, 09:58:23 AM »
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Many of you know this..... but for those that don't..... not all convention awards are the same.

I personally like something like the NMRA scoring system. 
People's choice (while perfect for Max's model- they got it right since this is such an impressive model) can sometimes be fickle to say the least.

I attended a national convention in Louisville around 1991.   The first place diesel locomotive was a GP9 that was a stock model but had been custom painted for L&N- made by a guy in the local sponsoring club.  Bottom line is that all the local guys voted for their friend.  There were many other fine models requiring much more craftmanship that could/should have won.

If Max's model did not win best of show under the NMRA scoring system, then I would also be curious about what did win, because Max's model is so genuinely amazing.

Ron Bearden
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Cajonpassfan

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Re: Spokane, Portland and Seattle (SP&S) 0-6-0 Project
« Reply #512 on: September 05, 2018, 11:46:36 AM »
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Ron, while I generally agree with you about the fickleness of popular vote, judging by jury isn't infallible either. The generic scoring categories simply don't provide enough points for the exquisite and precise craftsmanship required to fully scratchbuild a locomotive in N scale. In this instance, the Best of Show went to a very nicely done steel plant (pics below) and while I don't want to diminish its author's skills, the plant is built around stock Walthers kit components. Max's model got nearly perfect score, except for the paint and finish category (without any explanation about the finish). Ultimately, I think the plant won because it's big, and the 0-6-0 is, well, little...
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« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 11:48:29 AM by Cajonpassfan »

mmagliaro

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Re: Spokane, Portland and Seattle (SP&S) 0-6-0 Project
« Reply #513 on: September 05, 2018, 11:49:06 AM »
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Ahem...
Well, since this came up...

The "Gold Award" (best-in-show) went to an HO blast furnace complex partly based on Walthers blast furnace parts with a great deal of added scratchbuilt structure parts and details.  It was a beautiful model with excellent weathering and really nice lighting effects.  The whole hoist car and lift on the back of the furnace (where the high line comes in) was redone and was excellent.

Here's how the Gold Award thing works.   They select it as the best of all the 1st-place winners of all model types (so it could be a structure, a freight car, a loco... anything).

There are 5 categories judged on any model: Construction, Conformity, Scratchbuilding, Detail, and Paint/finish.  I got perfect scores in 4 of the 5 categories, but lost 7 points under Paint/Finish.  So my total was 118 out of a possible 125 (and in a competition as tough as the NMRA national, that's pretty much the ball game right there if you want the Gold Award). 

My only beef with the whole thing is that Paint/Finish is 25 points, and there were no comments whatsoever explaining why the 7 points were deducted.  That's a lot of points to take off with no explanation.  In fact, the only comment on the back of the sheet for "Finish" said, "Very good paint work and decals".    If the whole point of the NMRA model contest is to improve your modeling, how are you supposed to do that if they take off points and don't tell you what you should have done better?

So there, that's all I know about the best-in-show.  I will never know how the other entries scored, or how close I came.


MK

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Re: Spokane, Portland and Seattle (SP&S) 0-6-0 Project
« Reply #514 on: September 05, 2018, 12:40:20 PM »
+1
Sounds like Max got railroaded!   :trollface:

peteski

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Re: Spokane, Portland and Seattle (SP&S) 0-6-0 Project
« Reply #515 on: September 05, 2018, 02:23:12 PM »
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There are 5 categories judged on any model: Construction, Conformity, Scratchbuilding, Detail, and Paint/finish.  I got perfect scores in 4 of the 5 categories, but lost 7 points under Paint/Finish.  So my total was 118 out of a possible 125 (and in a competition as tough as the NMRA national, that's pretty much the ball game right there if you want the Gold Award). 

My only beef with the whole thing is that Paint/Finish is 25 points, and there were no comments whatsoever explaining why the 7 points were deducted.  That's a lot of points to take off with no explanation.  In fact, the only comment on the back of the sheet for "Finish" said, "Very good paint work and decals".    If the whole point of the NMRA model contest is to improve your modeling, how are you supposed to do that if they take off points and don't tell you what you should have done better?

So there, that's all I know about the best-in-show.  I will never know how the other entries scored, or how close I came.

I belong to a model car club. We run an annual model contest where we usually have between 200-300 models entered (separated in multiple classes).  We also use a point system for judging and paint/finish is one of the judging criteria.  Unfortunately, even with the pint system, since human judges are judging something that cannot be exactly quantified (the overall finish of the model), the results are still subjective.  If we were to take 2 teams of judges and have them judge the same model, the results would not  be identical.  The human factor is always there.

I agree that in your case, it would be beneficial to know what specifically caused them to deducts those points.  At our show we do not provide any feedback (or even show the score cards) to the modelers, so it looks like NMRA is a bit more open about their judging.  But I can say that any feedback given to judges can end up in some animosity from the modelers. Many (at least in the model car circles) to not take kindly to constructive criticism.

As far as popular vote goes, I have witnesses all sorts of shenanigans with that system too.  When I enter contests I don't do it to win awards. If I do, it is nice - if I don't, no problem.  I'm sure that you are the same way.  I'm sure you are the same way. Still, it would be nice to find out what cost you those 7 points (like you said, to improve your modling).  However, there is a possibility that you might not  agree with their assessment.
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wcfn100

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Re: Spokane, Portland and Seattle (SP&S) 0-6-0 Project
« Reply #516 on: September 05, 2018, 03:02:20 PM »
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I've been on both sides of the NMRA contest and I can see how painting something black with few decals might not get you the full 25 points. 

It's just the chance you take with any judging.

Jason

milw12

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Re: Spokane, Portland and Seattle (SP&S) 0-6-0 Project
« Reply #517 on: September 05, 2018, 06:13:59 PM »
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I've been on both sides of the NMRA contest and I can see how painting something black with few decals might not get you the full 25 points. 

It's a shame that prototypical fidelity would lose out to something flashy, if it matches the prototype it shouldn't matter if its flat black or the SP Daylight. It's a shame that prototypical fidelity would lose out to something flashy, but I understand that it is chance to take.

Max, I've followed the project and it's been astounding. If the NMRA can't give this marvel best in show, it's their loss  ;)

Congrats!

Lucas

wcfn100

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Re: Spokane, Portland and Seattle (SP&S) 0-6-0 Project
« Reply #518 on: September 05, 2018, 06:36:03 PM »
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It's a shame that prototypical fidelity would lose out to something flashy, if it matches the prototype it shouldn't matter if its flat black or the SP Daylight. It's a shame that prototypical fidelity would lose out to something flashy, but I understand that it is chance to take.


If he hadn't painted and lettered it at all, he'd start with 0 points.  So is the work he did worth full points as compared to other models with regards to paint?  Yeah, maybe.  But we weren't judging.

It's a bit of a game.  Like for the scratch building category maybe you built two parts completely by scratch and they are perfect in every way and took hours to complete, but it's only two pieces.  Some judges may not give the full 15 point for that.


Jason

draskouasshat

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Re: Spokane, Portland and Seattle (SP&S) 0-6-0 Project
« Reply #519 on: September 07, 2018, 08:13:05 PM »
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Max, my guess is the 7 points were deducted because that was the only way to make sure an HO model won best of show. you were at an NMRA event after all!!!

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MK

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Re: Spokane, Portland and Seattle (SP&S) 0-6-0 Project
« Reply #520 on: September 07, 2018, 10:49:18 PM »
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Funny but so true!   :|

Sokramiketes

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Re: Spokane, Portland and Seattle (SP&S) 0-6-0 Project
« Reply #521 on: October 01, 2018, 02:26:05 PM »
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I think that the RMC award means the most to me.  Not only do I have the utmost respect for that publication and all it has stood for in terms of craftsmanship in model railroading, but it is a "general" award.  They chose it from every model in the room, not just locomotives.

Ron Sebastian once called the RMC award the Stanley Cup of modeling awards, and the only one worth a damn. :-)  I assume what they are awarding is a continuation of the Craftsman Trophy and am glad to see they still give out that award even with the change in ownership. 

Congrats. 
Mike

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