Author Topic: D&H Champlain Div Version 4  (Read 3320 times)

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bdennis

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D&H Champlain Div Version 4
« on: March 24, 2016, 01:32:15 AM »
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A new beginning for the D&H Champlain Div - Version 4.

Last July we moved out of our old home and have recently moved into a new one.. This time with less space than the old 7.5m x 6m shed.

We moved into the new home at the end of Jan 2016 and now I'm busy planning the next incarnation of the D&H Champlain division.

The new layout space will be significantly smaller than the last version. This time it will be in half of the 6m x 6m garage with a dividing wall. So the layout will be 2 levels in a 2.60m x 5.90m room within the garage. The big advantage is that the garage is attached to the house and there is a door into the house.. So no getting wet during winter.

The room will have its own ceiling so I can use the ceiling as storage space within the garage.

The concept of the layout is similar to before in that it will be the Champlain / Saratoga divisions of the D&H or the North End. The town names in the area will be used but there will be modellers licence in terms of the locations of the industries and the complexity of the towns.

The main deck will be 1300mm to 1400mm from the floor with 4 towns or distinct switching locations and then the main line will climb a helix and then run around the parimiter of the room at 1600mm to 1700mm from the floor.

The top deck will be a narrow shelf of no more than 200mm wide. (the main deck is 300mm wide).
As the main deck is busy with towns and industry, I wanted to ensure that I captured the feeling and the scenery of the area around Lake Champlain as it is quite spectacular and would be a shame to not model this area.

The layout will effectively be staging to staging with return loops at each end of the 2 staging locations with single main line between the two staging areas with passing sidings along the way.

The train lengths will be similar to the old layout in that 2 locos + 18 to 20 x 50Ft box cars + caboose.

All track will be Atlas Code 55 left or ME flex and the majority of turnouts will be hand made using fasttracks jigs.
I have a few Atlas Code 55 #5 and #7 and will modify them before installing them by replacing the point rails with new hand made rails and point throw bars.

I will be using the new MP1 switch machines rather than tortoise as they are easier to install and have more adjustments on them.
(picture linked from MRCS web site)
http://www.modelrailroadcontrolsystems.com/mp1-switch-motor/
I have found that the Digitrax DS54 and DS64 can drive the machines and also have found a cheap relay board that can be used to interface with other manufacturers output drivers that I have on hand to drive them.

Here are the plans as they stand as at today.

Main deck plus lower staging.


Main deck plus the helix


Upper deck including upper staging.


Follow along as I get things under way to build this new layout.



Any / all feedback is welcome.

Brendan Dennis
N scale - Delaware & Hudson Champlain Division

GaryHinshaw

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Re: D&H Champlain Div Version 4
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2016, 02:33:00 AM »
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Wow.  You built and tore down an entire layout in less time than it's taking me to reach the half-way point on mine.   That said, I look forward to seeing this one take shape in even less time.  :lol:

My initial reaction to this plan is that you have a lot going on on all four sides of two fairly narrow aisles.  How big a crew do you expect to need to run this pike?  Will they fit comfortably without too much butt-scraping?  I had a similar peninsula in my first draft plan (in a similar size space) but I abandoned it, and I'm glad I did.  Have you considered other arrangements?

In any case, I look forward to seeing your progress.

bdennis

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Re: D&H Champlain Div Version 4
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2016, 02:40:00 AM »
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Gary,
Thanks for that..
Fortunately the old layout lives on and was sold to a good friend.. here it is here being reassembled.
http://bninthenorthwest.blogspot.com.au/

As for the isle space.. Yes it is a challenge getting that mix right.. I think the crew will be limited to 4 or 6 people and probably 2 man crews..
The number of ops sessions will be only 2 or 3 a year and the rest of the time I will be a lone ranged with just me and perhaps 2 others.. So should be ok.
Brendan Dennis
N scale - Delaware & Hudson Champlain Division

MichaelWinicki

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Re: D&H Champlain Div Version 4
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2016, 06:51:48 PM »
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Wow!

Nice plan!

But I agree with Gary... the aisles are very tight.

basementcalling

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Re: D&H Champlain Div Version 4
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2016, 08:13:44 PM »
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I am missing how you get to the upper level staging from the main deck?  Like the towns and layout of oications, though with major switching areas on each side of the aisle I think you need to widen them some if my in head conversion from metric to English units is accurate.

I would also consider adding storage yard capacity at your paper mill town, maybe running back to the left towards the hidden loop in the blob. Nice to have space to place extra loads or empties awaiting use in the mill.
Peter Pfotenhauer

Leggy

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Re: D&H Champlain Div Version 4
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2016, 08:55:16 PM »
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Hope the move has gone well!

Looking forward to following along with this one again.

bdennis

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Re: D&H Champlain Div Version 4
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2016, 04:03:16 AM »
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I am missing how you get to the upper level staging from the main deck? 

The main deck enters the helix and climbs 2.5 turns up to the upper level at the bottom right side and then climbs clockwise around the room to the upper staging.

Re the storage for the paper mill. Thanks for that I will see what I can do.

In terms of Metric to imperial conversions..
The Staging area - 100mm is 47 inches from the floor
The lower deck - 1300mm is just over 51 inches from the floor
The Wilsboro - 1400mm is just over 55 inche sfrom the floor
The upper deck - 1600mm is just in 63 inches from the floor
The upper staging - 1700mm is just under 67 inches from the floor

The isles are 850mm = approx 33.5 inches
the inch points are 700mm = approx 27.5 inches

Hope this helps.

Yes I know the isles are tight, however I cant make the room any wider and I really don't want to loose the centre peninsula.

The loop on the end of the peninsula is a single turn helix to enable longer run between Port Henry and Willsboro and also go gain 100mm (4 inches) in height.
Brendan Dennis
N scale - Delaware & Hudson Champlain Division

sirenwerks

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Re: D&H Champlain Div Version 4
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2016, 12:25:44 PM »
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Brendan,


More observation than anything else... I presume the lift bridge spans a door which opens out and the upper level is a high duck-under.  But the lower level duck-under will be a PITA and the upper level (albeit an easier duck-under for most) is too close to the lower to make a door-width a tilt-up feasible, same for a parallel slide-up.  It seems you have two options - a drop-down for the lower-level or a swing-in(to the room).  But the drop-down is also dangerous because you'll need some depth to model the track level-to-water scenery and then more depth for the bridge, and the bridge, the most fragile part of the unit, is first to be brushed against when someone enters the room.  My recommendation is a swing-in.
Now seeking Pacific NW N scalers to create a Modutrak-style modular club featuring NP's shared mainline between Seattle and Portland. PM me if interested.

bdennis

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Re: D&H Champlain Div Version 4
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2016, 07:12:11 PM »
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More observation than anything else... I presume the lift bridge spans a door which opens out and the upper level is a high duck-under.  But the lower level duck-under will be a PITA and the upper level (albeit an easier duck-under for most) is too close to the lower to make a door-width a tilt-up feasible, same for a parallel slide-up.  It seems you have two options - a drop-down for the lower-level or a swing-in(to the room).  But the drop-down is also dangerous because you'll need some depth to model the track level-to-water scenery and then more depth for the bridge, and the bridge, the most fragile part of the unit, is first to be brushed against when someone enters the room.  My recommendation is a swing-in.

Thanks for the tips.
While the lower section is drawn like a river, the plan is to just have basic scenery on it. I put 2 road bridges on either side of the bridge just to provide a scenery break.. Will see if that works or not.
So can be a lift up with out too many issues.
The upper level could be a challenge. A drop would more than likely work in this place.


I will give it some thought.
Brendan Dennis
N scale - Delaware & Hudson Champlain Division

GaryHinshaw

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Re: D&H Champlain Div Version 4
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2016, 12:35:36 AM »
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Fortunately the old layout lives on and was sold to a good friend.. here it is here being reassembled.
http://bninthenorthwest.blogspot.com.au/

Thats great! 

I've been thinking about your plan some more and one thing that strikes me is that you've had to sacrifice valuable real estate for not one, but two helices (half helices, really).  I especially don't care for the half-helix at the end of the peninsula, which eats a lot of space, but doesn't really gain you very much since you are treating both sides of the peninsula as if they were at the same level.  If you held your nose and made that one a full helix, you could stack the two peninsula scenes and pick up some valuable aisle space in the process.  You could also leave both of those scenes open across the peninsula, which would open up the space a bit more (and let operators choose which side of the aisle they wanted to use while they work).  Then you could then eliminate the helix in the corner and find a more efficient way to pack the staging at either end.   For example, the balloon tracks could make use of the base of the peninsula instead of that whole corner.

Just some food for thought.

bdennis

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Re: D&H Champlain Div Version 4
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2016, 06:00:59 AM »
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Thats great! 

I've been thinking about your plan some more and one thing that strikes me is that you've had to sacrifice valuable real estate for not one, but two helices (half helices, really).  I especially don't care for the half-helix at the end of the peninsula, which eats a lot of space, but doesn't really gain you very much since you are treating both sides of the peninsula as if they were at the same level.  If you held your nose and made that one a full helix, you could stack the two peninsula scenes and pick up some valuable aisle space in the process.  You could also leave both of those scenes open across the peninsula, which would open up the space a bit more (and let operators choose which side of the aisle they wanted to use while they work).  Then you could then eliminate the helix in the corner and find a more efficient way to pack the staging at either end.   For example, the balloon tracks could make use of the base of the peninsula instead of that whole corner.

Just some food for thought.

Gary,
Thanks for the feedback.
A few updates.
Tthe half-helix at the end of the peninsula, which eats a lot of space, but doesn't really gain you very much
The idea of the 1 turn helix is to gain 100mm from 1300 on the Port Henry side to 1400MM on the Willsboro side.
The reason is that it wanted to leave as much space between the lower staging (at 1200mm) and the start of the main helix (at 1400mm)
Also the 1/2 turn helix is intended to go into a tunnel just before the back drop and then appear above it self on the other side of the back drop after a period of time thus giving the illusion of more distance between Port Henry and Willsboro.
I would leave the heilx there and just make the lower tunnel portal closer to the town of Port Henry and save a bit of space.

Then you could then eliminate the helix in the corner and find a more efficient way to pack the staging at either end. 

The reason for the 2.5 turn large helix in the corner is to get up to the second level that goes around the room at 1600mm and climbs to 1700mm at the point of the staging.
The reason for the upper section is just main line running and just country side / lake side scenery as the main deck is very industrial.

I appreciate the feedback so please keep it coming.

I have made a change to the South Whitehall section and gained 50mm so the bottom isle is now 900mm (35.5 inches)
Im going to have a play around with the main deck on the top wall at Whitehall to see if I can gain 100mm there also to make the isle 900mm also.

Stay tuned.
Brendan Dennis
N scale - Delaware & Hudson Champlain Division

superchief

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Re: D&H Champlain Div Version 4
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2016, 10:09:48 AM »
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Brendan, Looking good, I like your track plan, I was glad I got to operate on your old layout. It always hurts to find out it is the final session, but the old layout lives and your on to the next chapter, Not bad. I agree with Gary on the half helix, but all layout design comes with pros and cons. I also agree that the aisles are narrow but as you explained I think you will be ok with the crew size. The old layout operated flawlessly so keep your same standards and you will have another fine layout. I cannot believe that your gang has lost 4 layouts in just a years time, so I am glad to hear that yours and Rods will live on again, you guys have a great group down there and I hope to visit again "down under"

Gordon Bliss - Santa Fe-All the way

bdennis

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Re: D&H Champlain Div Version 4
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2016, 05:52:05 PM »
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Gordon,
Thanks for the updates. Yes it seems I started something a year ago and the number of fallen flags has been large.. Fortunately some survive in a new location.

Here is an updated plan. I have moved things around a bit to enable isle space up to 900mm. (34.5 inches)
Lower staging- The main change here is to place the main line down to staging behind / in buildings.


Main deck. - The main change here is to move the peninsula blob to the right a little to allow more isle space and to reduce the size of the blob. I also shaved a bit of the top wall section and moved the loco facility to the right.. (Whitehall actually has the loco facility a fair way from the main yard so this is prototypical.)


Upper deck. -This is unchanged.


Brendan Dennis
N scale - Delaware & Hudson Champlain Division

boisecity

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Re: D&H Champlain Div Version 4
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2016, 07:46:28 AM »
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Looking forward to seeing it progress and of course operating on it

regards JF

bdennis

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Re: D&H Champlain Div Version 4
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2016, 06:15:37 AM »
+1
Railway room construction has started.

Im sub dividing the garage into a railway room 6m x 2.95m. The garage then will have space to park 1 car and be used as a crew room for ops sessions.

See here for a few pics of the work over the last few days.





Also here is the current plan.




Also see my blog for more info.
http://dh2ndsub.blogspot.com.au/
Brendan Dennis
N scale - Delaware & Hudson Champlain Division