Bachmann 1937 AAR Boxcar.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Exactly.

[peteski]

I guess I don't see that fine line guys. In my lifetime I have not yet seen any Bachmann item which was perfect. They to me also have much worse track record than other manufacturers as far as the quality and fidelity of their models go.

But if all it takes for it not to be a bashing then I stand by my original statement that the brake wheel is totally prototypical. Just a small item which the elite modeler can easily replace with a more realistic one. Otherwise, a great model (since we have to remain positive). Ok, does that work? 

[Dave V]

I guess I don't see that fine line guys. In my lifetime I have not yet seen any Bachmann item which was perfect. They to me also have much worse track record than other manufacturers as far as the quality and fidelity of their models go.

But if all it takes for it not to be a bashing then I stand by my original statement that the brake wheel is totally prototypical. Just a small item which the elite modeler can easily replace with a more realistic one. Otherwise, a great model (since we have to remain positive). Ok, does that work? 

Sigh...  I'm going to keep trying here, although I'm starting to wonder why.

1)  Bachmann....it does have a very checkered past (and present).  Does that mean that they are completely incapable of ever producing anything good?  No, certainly not.  There have been some very good steam locomotives (and some very poor ones).  And I'm happy with my P70 coach (even if others aren't).  You can have low expectations...  Hell, you can swear off Bachmann for life; I really don't care.  But abusing a model before it's ever in the hands of a single modeler is pointless and pedantic.  Maybe I'm the eternal optimist, but I would hope that we should expect that each new model represents a chance for a manufacturer to "get it right," regardless of its reputation.  Past performance certainly drives expectations and is strongly correlated with future quality, but nevertheless...  Whether it's Bachmann, Intermountain, Kato, or anyone else, it does not follow as certainty that a model must suck because that company has made models that suck in the past.  It probably will, but who among us has not wanted a second (or third, or fourth) chance?

2)  "have to remain positive."  No one said that.  That's just hyperbole and frankly hyperbole is a lazy tactic.  If the car is unprototypical or poorly manufactured, go ahead and say it.  Now, there are ways of saying it without coming off like a train hipster douchenozzle, but I recognize we do not play with trains because of our renowned social skills.

3)  No one's trying to censor anyone or play Model Railroader where every train model squirts rainbows and sunshine.  However, this forum has earned a reputation which I'm not sure is entirely fair.  As a proud member and representative thereof, I hate seeing the very fine modeling (including your awesome stuff, of course!) diminished by pettiness and negativity that often goes far beyond factual critique.  As I've said before, there's a difference between "the door, ends, and brakewheels are all wrong on this model" and "there's another steaming yardloaf from Bach-moron who sucks more than the suckiest suck who ever sucked."  When I first joined the Railwire I was relieved by the freedom to say whatever was on my mind, and I launched into PCM in very much the latter manner out of frustration on the M1 project.  None of those words I said made me a better man, made the Railwire a better place, or made PCM bring the M1 to market any faster.

Understand that tone has consequences on membership, too.  More than one member has been run off based on the tone of some of the bashing.  As for this thread, I echo Ed in saying this car is out there on the market, available to all, and therefore fair game for honest critique.  As for the BAR car pictured below, assuming I can get over the fact that it's not the right body style for the paint job (if you can understand whatever hermaphroditic body this represents) the colors look way off as well.  Maybe it's the picture, but it looks really washed out.

Most of their new freight car releases in Pennsy have missed the mark on paint schemes as well, such as not carrying the white stripe across the door on a Merchandise Service boxcar or the wrong font on a shadow keystone scheme (which the prototype never wore) on a USRA hopper.  I really hope Bachmann takes more care in the future on paint schemes, but that'll only really matter if they get their actual carbodies correct.

I suspect we're not Bachmann's target audience for their rolling stock.

[sirenwerks]

If the ends are, even mistakenly, reasonably accurate Buckeye ends, then it's a potentially usable model, IMO.  I haven't had time to research it much but it looks like way too many ribs and they're not flat enough to be a Buckeye.  I don't usually look at models for there accuracy so much as their usability.  Now, that being said, if the manufacture swears up and down a product represents X and it doesn't really I'm more than happy to show them the errors of their way.  I'd like to see the drawing or picture Bachmann is basing its claim on, that's for sure.

[peteski]

Dave,
thanks for that explanation. Clear enough, but anytime I see us pointing out errors in Bachmann models (either released or in pre-production photos), the "Bachmann bashing" flag pops up in my mind.  I know - it is me. 

[Dave V]

Dave,
thanks for that explanation. Clear enough, but anytime I see us pointing out errors in Bachmann models (either released or in pre-production photos), the "Bachmann bashing" flag pops up in my mind.  I know - it is me. 

To be honest, I'm surprised we're trying to have a serious conversation about a Bachmann N scale freight car.  While I won't "pre-bash" future releases, I will say that my personal expectations for prototype fidelity in Bachmann freight cars are such that I don't even pay attention anymore unless someone specifically points one out as being good to buy.  My one and only Bachmann freight car in N scale is a USRA hopper riding around in a very incorrect PRR paint scheme (but looking decent enough in a moving train, LOL).

Again, I suspect the Railwire collective is not the intended audience for these.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Again, I suspect the Railwire collective is not the intended audience for these.

And it really is quite a shame, because I really don't think getting it right (sure, they'll never be ESM's beautiful stuff, but they at least will be a model of SOMETHING real) would add that much to the cost.

How much more would tooling the right ends have cost? Nothing.
And in this day of instant access to SO much information, and SO many photographs, how much more would the research have taken? I'm guessing not a lot.

However, I then think there might be a second side to this. It's something DKS pointed out to me about the Woodland Scenics buildings. They're not models of buildings. They're what would happen if you asked someone with little to no familiarity with actual US buildings to make a model of one. I forget the exact details, but what he said made sense.

I wonder if, with the Bachmann cars, we're not seeing something similar in that the actual product design is done in China, where they aren't that familiar with the stuff, and don't really care that much.

It reminds me of my line of work. I work with both on-shore and off-shore developers. The off-shore developers generally aren't as good. You get stuff that kinda works, and is usually 80-90% of the way there. Then, you might have to do some cleanup, or some refactoring, or something. But... when you consider that the off-shore guys (who have a good local standard of living) are literally 10-20% of the cost of the on-shore guys, you understand why it's accepted. Hell, you could have 5 of them doing the exact same task, and only use one version of it, and it's still far cheaper than someone in the US. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if this is the approach Bachmann takes too.

[Cumbo2000]

This brochure of an old Sunshine resin kit in HO scale shows what the end should look like.

http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun18b.pdf

Bob Witt

[Cumbo2000]

This brochure of an old Sunshine resin kit in HO scale shows what the end should look like.

http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun18b.pdf

Bob Witt

Silly me Atlas already has offered models of the ARA 1932 box car with Buckeye ends in N scale lettered for the ERIE.

http://www.atlasrr.com/Images/NFreightCars/n1932araboxcar/1009/50000157_TQ.jpg

And from Fallen Flags: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie76335adb.jpg

Bob Witt

[bbussey]

To be fair, Bachmann has had some freight equipment successes in recent years. 

The USRA twin hopper tooling is good, even though there have been notations that the rib relief is too shallow.  But the overall design of the model is sound, and it's one of only two N scale open-hopper models to supply inner cross bracing (the other being the Atlas offset twin-bay).  Some of the decos such as the PRR are fabricated, but others such as the C&O are spot on.

Both 10,000g riveted tank cars (single dome and triple dome) are well done, and are better than their MTL counterparts, with cleaner relief detail and proper dome height and ride height.

The Northeastern caboose is a top notch model, although the 36" wheels must be swapped out.

The TOFC flatcar is a big swing-and-a-miss, but the trailer that rides on it is of a prototype never released in N.

How many MTL models are off and get a pass?  So, as with any manufacturer, the Bachmann models should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, rather than summarily dismissing the product line as sub-standard.

[Dave V]

Both 10,000g riveted tank cars (single dome and triple dome) are well done, and are better than their MTL counterparts, with cleaner relief detail and proper dome height and ride height.

Ah, you're right!  I totally forgot.  I have one of their tank cars and it's quite nice.  Make that two Bachmann freight cars on the Juniata Division.

On the locomotive side I have 2 K4s and a GE 44T on the JD, and a 4-6-0 that (minus the tender) is a dead-ringer for a Colorado Midland Class 102.

[wcfn100]

Both 10,000g riveted tank cars (single dome and triple dome) are well done, and are better than their MTL counterparts, with cleaner relief detail and proper dome height and ride height.

What's the prototype of the single dome?


Jason

[bbussey]

I don't remember offhand.  I think ACF.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

This and their 50' boxcar are already available from other manufacturers right?

[sd45elect2000]

I don't remember offhand.  I think ACF.

Yes, It matches the 1927 ACF car with AB brakes. I have many of them. Most I swapped underframes for the intermountain car ones.

One thing about the N Scale tank cars that bothers me is I think someone has a car out of scale. If you have the ability to compare cars please consider the Micro Trains 10,000 gallon car vs the Bachmann 10,000 gallon car. Someone is out of scale and I think its Micro Trains. If you place the Bachmann car with the intermountain 8000 gallon car it "looks right" . I stopper buying the MT car. I do however like the MT three dome car that looks like it could be a 6000 gallon car. The MT three dome car "looks right" with the intermountain and Bachmann car.

Randy