Mid 70's Amtrak consists, what cars to use?

[milw156]

Here is one for the passenger car gurus of the group: With the coming of the Kato SDP40-F's,  I would like to model the Empire Builder or North Coast Hiawatha behind a pair of these. My mid 70's photos were primarily motive power and special cars like the Great Domes, I can make out the different paint schemes in a lot of them, BN, NCL, GN, BSB, Amtrak, UP, Milw,  Never paid much attention to consist arrangement however, and never rode either train for that matter. It seems as if Amtrak got about half of it's equipment from the Santa Fe, and BN predecessors, The Empire Builder seemed to run with mostly equipment from BN members, and a few Amtrak cars. What RTR cars from Centralia, Kato, & Rapido are reasonably correct for these particular roads? Is anything made by Con Cor, Walthers, or Bachman worth considering? What cars can be used with just a little modification, or complete repainting? I had gotten the Kato Milwaukee Road Smooth Side set (complete FOOBIE) 20 some years ago, and was considering repainting the dome, sleepers, baggage, and RPO in particular if appropriate.
Suggestions please!!!
Rick

[SecretWeapon]

I plan on using the old Kato Amtrak sets. The 6 & 4 car sets.

[jmlaboda - RIP]

What RTR cars from Centralia, Kato, & Rapido are reasonably correct for these particular roads?

The answer can be found at the N-scale Varnish's Passenger Car User's Guide.

The User's Guide lists all available cars for many major roads, provides their number series and, when known, their dispositions when a road had disappeared because of a merger or consolidation.  And the Amtrak pages will tell you everything you need to know about what their former owner's cars were renumbered too as well as what cars are now possible to model in N.  While it is not all that easy to do there is a great deal that can now be modeled in N-scale!!!

[nkalanaga]

The original Con-Cor/Kato coach, dome, and mail-baggage from the late 60s are GN prototypes, and they all made it into Amtrak service, although the models aren't up to today's standards.  The domes are the only smoothside Budd domes available, so unless you want to kitbash, they're your best choice.   The CC smoothside sleeper and diner are actually mirror images of the GN cars, so look a little strange to those used to the prototype, as well as being mid-70s models.

Even after Amtrak started repainting cars. ex-NP and GN domes were the most common, with ex-CB&Q a distant third.  Bachmann's Great Dome, in Amtrak paint, would be an acceptable stand-in, although I never saw one of the ATSF full domes in Pasco, only the GN version.  It isn't hard to kitbash the GN version, either "from scratch" or using the Brass Car Sides conversions.  MR had an article on doing it the hard way, in HO, many years ago, and I have done a couple that way in N.

A lot of the ex-CB&Q equipment was also seen in the EB, so those can be used.

The UP's "Pacific" series 10-6 sleepers were regulars, although certainly not every day.  A pair of them would be right at home, in UP or Amtrak paint. 

Centralia Car Shops' 56 seat coach is correct for both NP and GN cars purchased second-hand in the 60s, and they were seen in the Empire Builder.  The GN Big Sky Blue models are way too dark, but the GN EB, BN, NP, and Amtrak cars look fine.

I never saw a MILW car in Pasco.  The ex-MILW Super Domes were used on the North Coast Hiawatha, but it ran through Wenatchee.

I saw a few ATSF coaches, and rode one in 1973, but once Amtrak-painted cars became common ex-ATSF seem to be the most common.

I saw one UP diner, but at least 2 ex-UP in Amtrak paint.

Sleepers were a real mix, with ex-GN, NP, CB&Q, ATSF, UP, and SCL showing up in their original paint, and as Amtrak cars.  GN and Q seemed to be most common, with most of the NP cars their Slumbercoaches.

Oddly, CB&Q dome-observation cars made fairly frequent appearances, both as Q and Amtrak cars.  The D&RGW's Silver Sky came through at least once, and they weren't even part of Amtrak.

For baggage cars almost any GN, NP, BN, or SP car would work, as many of them were leased.  By the mid 70s dark green? gray? SP cars were very common, as the BN was rebuilding their fleet into MOW cars.

By 1975 most of the train would be Amtrak cars, with a few unrepainted ones for flavor.  1974 really threw a kink into Amtrak's plans, with Expo '74 in Spokane.  The Empire Builder from Seattle to Spokane sometimes ran two sections, the North Coast Hiawatha was busy, and they even had a local Seattle-Spokane train through Wenatchee.  Cars that Amtrak hadn't intended to buy ended up being leased, resulting a a more colorful fleet that summer.  GN's Lewis and Clark Pass, in Empire Builder colors, was a frequent sight.

[squirrelhunter]

I can look at my copy of Zephyrs, Chief and other Orphans tonight. It's got car/power assignments through early 1976 for both trains.

You might also want to look into grabbing the Wayner book on Amtrak consists as well.

[milw156]

Thanks guys, this is the kind of stuff I was looking for. Going to the Madison Wi train show this weekend, going to look for those books squirrelhunter mentioned, as well as some videos I know are out there. I have had a Bachmann great dome and the Brass Car sides for at least 10 years, maybe I need to get going on it!
Rick

[jmlaboda - RIP]

I have had a Bachmann great dome and the Brass Car sides for at least 10 years, maybe I need to get going on it!

If you were to get a set of sides from M&R Models of the ATSF Big Dome cars (either one) you could do a considerably better model using the Brass Car Sides sides and the dome parts from the M&R set.  The M&R set provides considerably better detail than the thick dome parts of the Bachmann dome but does require a lot more work.  A better option overall.  Also, laminating the BCS car sides with styrene for the edging of the letterboard and the lower slab-sides would greatly improve these details as well since they are thicker than what the car provides.

[squirrelhunter]

I've been tied up all week getting a T Trak module ready for a show this weekend and getting my only E unit ready to pull my El Capitan set as well. I am hoping on Sunday to have some quiet time to look up the Frailey info an transcribe it. The North Coast Hiawatha in particular I recall had several major shuffles of equipment.