Author Topic: Archer Surface Detail issues  (Read 1440 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

chicken45

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4159
  • Gender: Male
  • The guy who made DKS pee that one time.
  • Respect: +699
    • Facebook Profile
Archer Surface Detail issues
« on: February 05, 2016, 09:39:31 AM »
0
Howdy folks!
I had some issues with some rivets peeling off under paint.
I was wondering what could be done to prevent this from happening again in the future.



Here's what happened.
I cleaned the side of the car with 70% alcohol.
Applied the decals to the bare plastic and followed the instructions and used Micro Sol.
I shot primer, gloss, decaled the car, and glossed again.
I masked the car sides with low tack painters masking tape.
Pulling the tape off is what caused the issues here. I was quite delicate with the tape removal. I even used low heat from a blow dryer to aid in tape removal.

So, my guess as to what happened was that I should have applied these to a glossy surface FIRST to improve adhesion. I only didn't do this because the Info/Hints section in the instructions suggests "applying under the paint." 

Lucky, this ended up not being a big deal. It only ruined one decal and I had a backup.


Josh "John" Surkosky
Darth Vader of Penn State
PRRT&HS Member
Bass Trombone Enthusiast
Bearded Dynamo
Kentucky Colonel

              The Pig 
The pig, if I am not mistaken;
Supplies us sausage, ham, and bacon.
Let others say his heart is big—
I call it stupid of the pig.

Philip H

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7434
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +488
    • Layout Progress Blog
Re: Archer Surface Detail issues
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2016, 10:02:24 AM »
0
I've done a couple of scratchbuilt cars with these over the years and not hand any issues with lifting.  Of course, I also haven't had to mask them . . . are you sure a glossier surface is the issue?
Philip H.
Chief Everything Officer
Baton Rouge Southern RR - Mount Rainier Division.

"Yes there are somethings that are "off;" but hey, so what." ~ Wyatt

"I'm trying to have less cranial rectal inversion with this." - Ed K.

"There's more to MRR life than the Wheezy & Nowheresville." C855B

davefoxx

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 8656
  • Gender: Male
  • "I like trains!"
  • Respect: +2024
Re: Archer Surface Detail issues
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2016, 10:11:26 AM »
0
I would guess that applying decals to bare plastic is the problem.  I'd suggest roughing up the plastic with some sandpaper a little bit to help with giving the plastic a tooth.  Since you're painting over the decal, you don't have to be concerned about visible decal film.

DFF
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 10:13:55 AM by davefoxx »

General Counsel to the Laurel Valley Ry.
Member: ACL/SAL Historical Society
A Proud HOer

chicken45

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4159
  • Gender: Male
  • The guy who made DKS pee that one time.
  • Respect: +699
    • Facebook Profile
Re: Archer Surface Detail issues
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2016, 10:25:08 AM »
0
So, I emailed them and this is a summary of what he said:


Quote
Be careful with resin parts uncured material and reducing surface adhesion.

My suggestion would be to first clean the parts thoroughly with a product like Fantastic or 409 which is brutal on oils and will leave a very fine etch on the plastic/resin. If there is any contaminant on the surface either of those will eliminate it.

I would not recommend cleaning with alcohol.

I emailed him back and asked about seeing the edge of the decal film. Here's what he said.

Quote
I noticed that too. Seems you're not using enough setting solution. Setting solution literally dissolves clear decal film turning it into clear lacquer which should bond to the plastic like clear lacquer from a bottle or can.

Do a test. Apply some clear deal film (a piece from one of the Surface Detail sheets will do) to a scrap model using setting solution. Let it dry overnight. Then take a brush, soak it in setting solution and brush over the clear film several times. Let it dry and you should see no trace of the film. It's been washed away by the setting solution.

One of these days I'm going to do a video on the 21st Century way to apply decals. The chemistry has changed in the past several years and a lot of modelers are still using outdated methods. IMO, no other aspect of model building is more misunderstood than applying decals and the chemistry involved.

I had no idea! I hope my experience helps someone else get it better.
Josh "John" Surkosky
Darth Vader of Penn State
PRRT&HS Member
Bass Trombone Enthusiast
Bearded Dynamo
Kentucky Colonel

              The Pig 
The pig, if I am not mistaken;
Supplies us sausage, ham, and bacon.
Let others say his heart is big—
I call it stupid of the pig.

C855B

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 8111
  • Respect: +1068
Re: Archer Surface Detail issues
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2016, 10:40:49 AM »
0
Wow, that's some incredible product support. 8)
...mike

http://www.gibboncozadandwestern.com

We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents. We just don't tell anybody. -Bob Ross

BobRunty

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 126
  • Respect: +46
Re: Archer Surface Detail issues
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2016, 11:05:37 AM »
+1
Just my experience but I never apply a tape directly over any decal, whether on a painted surface or bare plastic. I'll tape around a decal and apply a paper mask directly over the decal if necessary. I've had all brands and types of decals lift if I tape directly over them, even after several rounds of setting solutions and topcoat sealant.

Bob

towl1996

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 756
  • Chairman of TRW Busty Cougar Welcoming Committee
  • Respect: +61
Re: Archer Surface Detail issues
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2016, 11:20:58 AM »
+1
@chicken45 Nice job on the FM, it looks great. Two questions, How did you do the mounting brackets and where did you get the decals. The shed looks good too. Thanks
Never argue with idiots; they'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

chicken45

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4159
  • Gender: Male
  • The guy who made DKS pee that one time.
  • Respect: +699
    • Facebook Profile
Re: Archer Surface Detail issues
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2016, 11:34:42 AM »
0
@chicken45 Nice job on the FM, it looks great. Two questions, How did you do the mounting brackets and where did you get the decals. The shed looks good too. Thanks

Thanks!
You'll have to join the Facebook PRR N Scale group or wait until the weekend update!
Josh "John" Surkosky
Darth Vader of Penn State
PRRT&HS Member
Bass Trombone Enthusiast
Bearded Dynamo
Kentucky Colonel

              The Pig 
The pig, if I am not mistaken;
Supplies us sausage, ham, and bacon.
Let others say his heart is big—
I call it stupid of the pig.

Lemosteam

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4011
  • Gender: Male
  • PRR, The Standard Railroad of my World
  • Respect: +1230
    • Designer at Keystone Details
Re: Archer Surface Detail issues
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2016, 11:41:11 AM »
+1
@chicken45 Nice job on the FM, it looks great. Two questions, How did you do the mounting brackets and where did you get the decals. The shed looks good too. Thanks

@towl1996 Thanks for noticing that shed!  KD thanks you!  :P ;)

oh and yeah, @chicken45 the flat looks ok too...  LOL! :trollface:

garethashenden

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1210
  • Respect: +361
Re: Archer Surface Detail issues
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2016, 12:25:42 PM »
0
I haven't used these myself yet, but I have heard of people having success with putting them between primer and paint. They stick better to primer than bare plastic, but still get covered with the top coat of color.

towl1996

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 756
  • Chairman of TRW Busty Cougar Welcoming Committee
  • Respect: +61
Re: Archer Surface Detail issues
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2016, 01:23:50 PM »
+1
Ugh, facebook, don't do it. So, I'll have to wait, but @chicken45 spare no details.

@Lemosteam, the shed and other items are on the list, it's just that the centipede ate all the dollars off the money tree. Going to have to add miracle-gro and water. 
Never argue with idiots; they'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

peteski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 21531
  • Gender: Male
  • Honorary Resident Curmudgeon
  • Respect: +2008
    • Coming (not so) soon...
Re: Archer Surface Detail issues
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2016, 02:28:43 PM »
+1
Another vote here for not applying any kind of decal (Archer included) to bare plastic or resin (no matter how clean it is). Especially if you will be masking over that area later.   Even if you use decal setting solution, the decal film will not fuse with plastic like it it does when applied over paint.

As far as degreasing urethane resin goes, I usually use lacquer thinner.  It doesn't seem to affect that type of resin.
--- Peteski de Snarkski

-"Look at me, I'm satirical!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm anal retentive!!!"
-"Look at me, I have the most posts evahhhh!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm snarky!!!!"
-"Look at me, I have OCD!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm a curmudgeon!!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm not negative, just blunt and honest!!!"

chicken45

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4159
  • Gender: Male
  • The guy who made DKS pee that one time.
  • Respect: +699
    • Facebook Profile
Re: Archer Surface Detail issues
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2016, 03:04:21 PM »
0
Let me make it clear again, that I only did this because I followed the directions. I don't want you guys to think I'm dim ( in this instance).
Josh "John" Surkosky
Darth Vader of Penn State
PRRT&HS Member
Bass Trombone Enthusiast
Bearded Dynamo
Kentucky Colonel

              The Pig 
The pig, if I am not mistaken;
Supplies us sausage, ham, and bacon.
Let others say his heart is big—
I call it stupid of the pig.

peteski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 21531
  • Gender: Male
  • Honorary Resident Curmudgeon
  • Respect: +2008
    • Coming (not so) soon...
Re: Archer Surface Detail issues
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2016, 04:10:28 PM »
0
Hey, maybe Archer knows something that none of us do here (or they have developed some new type of decal film?).

In my experience, decals (even when using setting solutions) adhere much better to painted rather than bare plastic/resin.
--- Peteski de Snarkski

-"Look at me, I'm satirical!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm anal retentive!!!"
-"Look at me, I have the most posts evahhhh!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm snarky!!!!"
-"Look at me, I have OCD!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm a curmudgeon!!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm not negative, just blunt and honest!!!"

chicken45

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4159
  • Gender: Male
  • The guy who made DKS pee that one time.
  • Respect: +699
    • Facebook Profile
Re: Archer Surface Detail issues
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2016, 05:01:01 PM »
0
Hey, maybe Archer knows something that none of us do here (or they have developed some new type of decal film?).

In my experience, decals (even when using setting solutions) adhere much better to painted rather than bare plastic/resin.

Not sure either, but they have said the film comes from Microscale.
Josh "John" Surkosky
Darth Vader of Penn State
PRRT&HS Member
Bass Trombone Enthusiast
Bearded Dynamo
Kentucky Colonel

              The Pig 
The pig, if I am not mistaken;
Supplies us sausage, ham, and bacon.
Let others say his heart is big—
I call it stupid of the pig.