PRR Catenary

[Lemosteam]

@peteski , kinda difficult to stitch together the first example with stretchy line:



I have thought about trying to simulate this in an etching or brass wire, buuut no, not gonna happen in N scale at 22" long and removable....

One could space the poles closer, but then the cost/work goes up significantly on the poles.

Siiiggggghhh.

[peteski]

When you mentioned "trolley wire" I thought it was just that: a simple singe trolley wire. But if you need to model the type of catenary which uses signal wire, droppers and trolley wire ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overhead_catenary ) then of course a single elastic line won't do.   Looks back at what you wrote, the 300 feet between poles should have given me a clue that it was not a simple trolley-type catenary.

If you were building a static diorama then I could see how the the entire overhead infrastructure could be built in (or close to) scale. But for an operating layout I really don't see that as a feasible option. The overhead infrastructure really need to be be more robust (out of scale) to survive the operation aspect of the layout.

I wouldn't discount the photoetched version. You can make 300' sections out of 2 or even 3 etched pieces. Just a simple jig to keep the aligned and soldering the pieces together would give you what you need.  Brass solders easily and silver solder is relatively strong.  While bit more difficult, even stainless steel can be soldered.  To me it actually seems like photoetching is actually a pretty good option. It would be best looking (closest to scale) and very strong (since all the various structural wires would be a single piece of metal).

[sd45elect2000]

I'll second Peteski on the etched catenary. I know that at one time Bob Knight was planning some PRR and NH catenary and support structure. I believe he was etching nickel silver. No idea what happened to those plans.....
In the past I have used NS wire with good result in HO scale. Much better than the old phosphor bronze.

Randy

[jmlaboda - RIP]

Speaking of catenary one thing I have never seen discussed was how things like passing tracks and yard tracks were dealt with.  My future module (if I ever get to a place where I can actually build it) features a small yard where cars would be interchanged with a branchline and while the main would be electrified the branch and the yard likely won't be.  Can deal with the idea of not having wire over the yard since set-outs and pick-ups can be made at the end of the train, with the pushers and caboose left on the main while the head-end power would be handling the switching but how to deal with the end of passing sidings is another thing and so far I haven't seen this explained in such a way as to understand how such should be done.

No where near close to being able to string wire but at least having an understanding on how such was handled would be great to have.

[sd45elect2000]

Lots of different way to wire yards and sidings. Even simpler for pantograph operation. There are a lot of books that can be a big help, the one I like a lot is "when the steam roads electrified" by William Middleton.

If you have specific questions feel free to message me.

Randy

[Lemosteam]

I'll second Peteski on the etched catenary. I know that at one time Bob Knight was planning some PRR and NH catenary and support structure. I believe he was etching nickel silver. No idea what happened to those plans.....
In the past I have used NS wire with good result in HO scale. Much better than the old phosphor bronze.

Randy

Another thing, etched catenary would only work over straight mainline. The cables are stretched at parabolic curvatures through curves and such.

@jmlaboda , I have one siding off my main thaty I want to appear electrified. I suspect this wasnot common practice for the 4 track main, but on two track...  I will have to transition the wires down and through the turnout and lower onto the siding.  i assume similar was done on the proto.  A search for PRR Catenary shows lots of images.

[sd45elect2000]

There are a few different types of catenary and can be adapted for different applications. Simple catenary is a messenger wire and a contact wire. You can use etched catenary with a backbone wire and pulloffs to keep the contact wire over the track. Compound catenary can also be pulled with a backbone but it is more common to have the contact wire forced into position by the wire hangers. Each electric railroad appeared to have their own ways of doing things, The New Haven had a very distinctive tri-angular catenary that would be an adventure to build !!

Randy

[Lemosteam]

Yes, I know, But I just cant see smooth curvature happening with an etched messenger, hanger and trolley wire.not to mention the peaks of the etch at the ends would change the constant spacing between oles as a result.  Etching them would be expensive as well.

[sd45elect2000]

Yes, I think it would be quite expensive especially since I would want it etched in nickel silver.

Randy

[Lemosteam]

All this catenary talk... Keystone Details could not resist and designed a 2 track standard catenary pole two pack kit...

Although they are not yet for sakle (I want to test assemblies and durability, prices are about half of the above.  Anybody interested @Dave Vollmer , @Ed Kapuscinski , @chicken45 





I will be designing an add-on kit to extend the poles to add telegraph and communication wire hangers as well.  the poles are designed to interlock at each end.

[Dave V]

Gotta talk price before I'll bite...!

[Lemosteam]

Gotta talk price before I'll bite...!

$11.50 for two assemblies as shown, it may grow slightly or shrink slightly because I want to test fit across two tracks.  My track is prototypical centers as opposed to the recommended 1-1/16" inch.

[Dave V]

I'm still concerned about durability.  These are FUD or FXD, right?  But, $11.50 for 2 cat bridge sets isn't unreasonable.

[Lemosteam]

I'm still concerned about durability.  These are FUD or FXD, right?  But, $11.50 for 2 cat bridge sets isn't unreasonable.

Yes I understand, that is why I want to test them before selling them.  You wanna be a guniea pig?    Just kidding.

[peteski]

Another thing, etched catenary would only work over straight mainline. The cables are stretched at parabolic curvatures through curves and such.

Could you explain this (or maybe show a drawing?  The catneary I have seen over curves was still in shorter straight sections. And over the mainline it usually zig-zags between poles to even out the wear of the pantograph's shoe.

It was said that nickel silver is the best material, but I'm not sure why. I also don't think it is all that much more expensive than brass. I would think that phosphor bronze or even stainless steel would be stronger than nickel silver or brass.