NP and CB&Q at Dearborn Station, Chicago

[Upstate Gator]

On page 12 of Stout, Santa Fe Through Passenger Service in Color, vol. 2, there is a photograph from 1963 that shows an NP heavyweight sleeper and a Pullman sleeper on a ready track at Dearborn Station. There also appears to be a CB&Q switcher just under the trusses. The NP car is identified as a CN car in the caption.

Was there any scheduled through service eastbound or southbound through Dearborn that would have used NP cars, presumably from the Empire Builder? The station served Santa Fe, Erie, C&EI, GTW, Wabash, Monon, and C&WI.

Ben

[Spikre]

 
   most likely a "Chartered Car" for an offline location.
  CB&Q handled the EB and NCL from Union Station unless there was some sort
  of major detour.
   and Santa Fe ran from Dearborn until Amtrak day.
  Santa Fe was a Tenant at Dearborn,while Erie/EL,C&EI,Wabash,were owners of C&WI.
  Chicago Terminals were rather complicated before Amtrak.
   this isn't a complete Owners List of C&WI-Dearborn Station.
   C&WI also owned Belt Railway of Chicago separately from Dearborn Station.
      Spikre
       

[nkalanaga]

As far as I know there was never a scheduled GN-ATSF passenger train, unless it was on the Inside Gateway, which was SP&S/GN/WP/ATSF.  Even there, I doubt that a train would have run over the ATSF, as its involvement was primarily to give the other three a non-SP link from the Bay Area to Southern Cal.

I have never heard of the NP/ATSF having any kind of joint service, freight or passenger, but wouldn't say they didn't, as I'm certainly not an expert on the NP.

The CB&Q and ATSF interchanged a lot of places, in and out of Chicago, so a CB&Q switcher on the ATSF wouldn't surprise me.

[Upstate Gator]

I was thinking one possibility was a chartered car on the Grand Canyon or maybe the Chief. Any thoughts on CB&Q connections with GTW, Wabash, or Erie?

[thomasjmdavis]

It was also the case that on days when flights were cancelled between Chicago and Toronto, that GTW would lease a lot of cars and sell extra seats on its Chicago-Toronto trains.  Most frequently, these would be from its various Dearborn partners, but if there were not enough available, they might go elsewhere.  ACL and FEC also did lease cars from CB&Q (and occasionally ATSF) during the winter months for use on NY-Miami trains, and they might be in Dearborn while in transit- although by 1963, my guess is those would go via IC, although I suppose possible that the Dixie Flyer could get them as far as Jacksonville.

Charter on the Grand Canyon is also a good guess.  The Sleeper book from the historical society has a list in the back of many of the sleepers spotted on ATSF trains, which included UP, N&W, and even MILW and many roads beyond the usual PRR and NYC cars.  The Chief also seemed to draw a lot of foreign cars through the 1960s- you would have thought ATSF would have plenty of its own, but I think the SF Chief put a strain on sleeping car availability when it was launched, and thereafter, ATSF found it better to lease cars as needed rather than build new ones.

The book also notes a lot of deadhead movements of foreign cars being returned to Chicago from various points on the ATSF. 

Is there enough in the photo to be able to ID the types of car by window pattern?

[Upstate Gator]

Tried to enlarge it and read the car name,  but the lettering role apart. Two words ampersand and one more word on the NP car. The other car looks like a tourist car.

[Upstate Gator]

It may be a 10-3. There's no Pullman name in the database with two words, an ampersand, and another word, so I'm getting confused from the kerning. I think I'm seeing 5 pairs of Windows with 3 single windows.

[Frisco Larry]

NP had 25  10-1-1 sleepers.  5 were still around when the photo was taken, Chief American Horse, Chief Arlee, Chief Big White, Chief Black Bear, and Chief Spotted tail.  The proportions of the three words in the name lead me to believe the car is Chief American Horse.

[Upstate Gator]

Thanks Larry. That sounds reasonable.
Ben

[Spikre]

  heres a list of the Owners of C&WI, Dearborn Station,and Belt RR of Chicago:
   as of 1970,
   Erie/EL
   GTW
   Wabash/N&W
   C&EI/L&N/MP?
   Monon/L&N
   Dearborn station was mostly torn down after Amtrak,think the Clock Tower survived ?
   one track was left in the station area for a commuter train to use, this was the N&W
   Valpo Dummy,ran until 1976 ,then METRA took over the train and moved it,
   but not sure where ?
   not sure who the Current Owners of Belt Railway are now ??
        Spikre