PRR Baldwin Shark question for you SPFs

[glakedylan]

quick question

were the passenger units Tuscan in color or the dark green?

thanks!

Gary

[chicken45]

I think they all started in DGLE and the stripes distinguished freight versus passenger.
5 stripe gold leaf or buff were passenger.
Single stripe buff were freight usually.
Then they started painting passenger stuff Tuscan.

[eric220]

When in doubt, Keystone Crossings

Looks like they started in DGLE and later went on to Tuscan. Some of the ones that were regeared for freight service got the single thin stripe.
http://pennsyrr.com/index.php/motive-power/93-operations/motive-power/161-passenger-shark-painting-lettering

[glakedylan]

Eric and Josh
thanks for the info and links
I guess I should have searched for "sharks" instead of RF16
much appreciated
Gary

[brokemoto]

Pennsylvania painted all of its diesels DGLE until some time in 1952, when the order came down from Philadelphia to paint the passenger units Tuscan.  Thus, the passenger sharks would have shown up DGLE, but the shops would have applied the Tuscan during a major shopping, which happened frequently with these things.  The passenger sharks arrived in 1948.

I do not know this for certain, but I would not be surprised if some of the E-8s showed up in DGLE and some in Tuscan, as the first ones showed up in 1952, the last in 1953.   C-C sold Pennsylvania E-8s in both colors.  Kato sold them in five stripe Tuscan.   LL and C-C sold PAs in Tuscan only  while Kato sold them in DGLE, only.   C-C sold E-7s in the Tuscan single stripe Pennsylvania scheme.   LL sold E7s in the five stripe Tuscan.   I do not know what scheme BLI used on their E-units as I never bought any.

The FP-7s seemed to be an exception to the Tuscan for passenger power as some of them came and remained in DGLE and some had Tuscan.   IM sold them in both schemes.  The MP "hobbyist quality" FP-7 came in a curious single stripe Tuscan that these things never had.  The MP trainset version came in a correct striping scheme but the "Tuscan" looked funny.  The LL FP-whatever came in DGLE.  B-mann sold an FP whatever in a five stripe "Tuscan" whose "Tuscan" was a bit curious.


Meanwhile, thank you, everyone for your replies.

[chicken45]

I'm a little butthurt that more people didn't pick up on all the ABBA jokes.
That bit about the DRGW was super clever, I thought.
I guess only Fernando got it.

[sirenwerks]

I do not know when the photograph was taken, but the freight cars behind the pair suggest mid-1960s or later.   Would that not be late for that paint scheme?  Did not all of the sharks receive the single stripe scheme earlier than most?   As troublesome as they were, which would have meant frequent major shoppings, I would expect that they would have been repainted before most other locomotives.

The Delmarva run was akin to transfer service to the middle of the Peninsula for redistribution to the numerous branchlines in Maryland, Delaware and the Virginia tip, and on to Norfolk via barge.  So if it is true the sharks were relegated to this service in their final years, and because the Delmarva was so removed from civilization except for its northern most start on the mainline in Delaware, I feel PRR would not have placed too much worry about their presenting in the most modern of paint. 


More modern power with single stripes did show up on these runs alongside the sharks, chiefly GP30/35s and Alco Centuries, but the cab units, sharks and Fs, appeared as kinda ratty and IMO to be running out their time.  That's one of the neat things about the Delmarva in the 60s, it had a curious mix of road power including the cab units and more modern 4-axle road units, along with RSs and Baldwin switchers and GP9s, with and without cabs.  All in a very bucolic setting and many of these were often mixed in one lash-up, which appeared to this non-SPF to be very un-Pennsy.  But at that point in time, the Delmarva had slipped in its agricultural production and trucking had made too much inroads given the short haul to Philly and then-operating ferry service to Baltimore, so the number of trains was slim which makes it kind of a wash to model for operations.  In its heydey though, the Delmarva was a fresh produce powerhouse that served Mid Atlantic cities, with production on par with today's Central Valley in California.

[eric220]

I'm a little butthurt that more people didn't pick up on all the ABBA jokes.
That bit about the DRGW was super clever, I thought.
I guess only Fernando got it.

I guess so. Like I said, IRL I for one need a link, not being an ABBA fan. In my alternate history, the PRR and the D&RG actually do cross each other and become fierce rivals.

I'll give you a knee-slap for effort, though. 

[sirenwerks]

I guess so. Like I said, IRL I for one need a link, not being an ABBA fan. In my alternate history, the PRR and the D&RG actually do cross each other and become fierce rivals.

OK, I'll bite... Where did the PRR cross the Sierra Nevadas or Cascades in this ALT.history?  Since D&RGW was aligned with WP (which had the best route) and all the second tier routes were taken, I'm struggling as to where the mighty (late to the party) Pennsy found its way and what it's ultimate terminus was.  Or did it take over the other, west coast, user of Belpaire fireboxs?

[eric220]

OK, I'll bite... Where did the PRR cross the Sierra Nevadas or Cascades in this ALT.history?  Since D&RGW was aligned with WP (which had the best route) and all the second tier routes were taken, I'm struggling as to where the mighty (late to the party) Pennsy found its way and what it's ultimate terminus was.  Or did it take over the other, west coast, user of Belpaire fireboxs?

The short answer is that they connected through Colorado under Loveland Pass to the Central Pacific, which they bought out. The ultimate terminus was Oakland/San Francisco. The long answer can be found here:

http://www.pennsylvania-railroad.com/

Just click on "History" in the menu.  I'm perfectly happy to discuss the alternate history further, but I think this thread has been polluted enough. If such a conversation is of interest, let's start a new thread.

[sirenwerks]

Ahhh...  I see you forgot the part where James Hill beats Cassatt senseless and tells him to go back East.

[chicken45]

Ahhh...  I see you forgot the part where James Hill beats Cassatt senseless and tells him to go back East.

LOL

[nkalanaga]

A PRR-GN combination would have been unlikely, given that the GN inherited Hill's independence, but there were connections.  Besides the Belpaire fireboxes, they also used the same electric system.  At least one PRR electric tested on the GN, and the PRR bought the GN's Y class after the GN dropped their electrification.   Neither was to successful.  The E2b was too light for the GN's Cascade grades, which needed tractive effort rather than speed, and the Y, FF-2 on the PRR, were too slow and wide for the PRR.  The GN sent the E2b home, and the PRR relegated the Y/FF-2 to helper service - after removing the side handrails (and doors) so they would fit through tunnels.

I could see the two cooperating to produce a Northern Transcontinental, even if they didn't merge.

[Bob Bufkin]

And don't forget that one of those GM electrics had its nose removed and grafted onto a wrecked PRR F unit.

[nkalanaga]

I hadn't heard that one.  The GN only had one streamlined Y, the result of a nasty wreck, and it was rebuilt using F unit noses.  The PRR bought it for parts, so it would make sense to use the nose as GM intended.

They did have two huge streamlined W class motors.  One of those went to the UP, and was used to build a turbine.  That was a three-unit locomotive, with the lead unit being a modified Alco PA, and the third a steam loco tender.  It looked like a kitbash that got out of hand, and was never repeated.