Bachmann K4 DCC Decoder

[glakedylan]

i hope this is the correct forum section to being posting in
and I also hope this has not already been discussed
I searched for information but could not find any
so, if either of these are in error please excuse me

the Bachmann K4 DCC decoder allows the locomotive to run in DC, analog, mode
like other decoders. but, it also allows for sound.
what is the actually difference in this decoder from those which offer no sound
in DC mode?

while I am not DCC capable, if I were to start installing decoders in locomotives
I would prefer to have ones that provide sound in DC use, so they could be
enjoyed until the I am able to go full DCC

thanks in advance for any or all information...

[glakedylan]

ok...

with further research I found it is a tsunami soundtraxx decoder
which particular one, I do not know
and I do not know which tsunami or other decoders provide sound in DC, analog, mode

thanks for any info

[reinhardtjh]

Gary,

  They are an OEM version makes for Bachmann (Maybe others).  http://www.soundtraxx.com/factory/OEM_pages/bachmann/bachmann.php

There isn't a specific page for the K4s yet, but it's likely to be nearly identical to the N Scale Berkshire listed on that page: http://www.soundtraxx.com/factory/OEM_pages/bachmann/bachmann_n_284berkshire_sv.pdf  The only differences is in the whistle settings.

I don't know a lot about the regular Soundtraxx Tsunami decoder so I can't tell you if they can be programmed to produce sounds when running on DC.  Probably there is a way and it might be in the manual for it, I just haven't looked.  These Bachmann "Sound Value" decoders are the only Soundtraxx decoders I have.

You may want to look into the new Econami line of decoders.  They have newer options and are the new entry level Soundtraxx sound decoder.  Most documentation can be found from this page: http://www.soundtraxx.com/manuals.php

[glakedylan]

thanks, John, that is helpful and provides more resources for research
it is very appreciated

[Mike C]

  According to the Tsunami steam users guide , their decoders will also work on DC control . It's turned on by CV 12 .

[glakedylan]

I gather, then, that tsunami decoders
can be programmed to run on DC current via CV 12 and CV 13
but, do those functions include the ability to produce sound in DC, analog?
it is not clearly indicated as far as I can tell

also, it is only tsunami decoders that have this feature?
they are quite pricey, unless all sound decoders retail for ~ $100

thanks

[kornellred]

All current NMRA-compliant DCC decoders are dual mode.  According to Wikipedia (that fountain of inerrancy)  the NMRA has copyrighted the term "DCC" as it applies to control of railroad models, therefore, a decoder cannot be described with the term "DCC" unless it is NMRA-compliant.  DCC decoders can be programmed to shut off analog (DC) operation by changing one of the bits in CV29.

[glakedylan]

but, what about the original questions?

[peteski]

As mentioned on this thread, all current DC decoders are capable of operating on DC. Usually that is configured in CV29 (and usually it is enabled by default), but some decoders might have additional or alternate methods of enabling DC mode.

Non-sound decoders only need around 3V to start operating. That means that they have a good operating speed range in DC. However sound decoders need much higher voltage (usually between 6-8V) to initialize and start operating. This means that you will need to crank your DC throttle knob to about 70% for the decoder to even to come alive.  That only leaves you with the upper 30% of your throttle knob to fun the loco from stop to full speed. Also some sound decoders will not run the loco at full speed even at 12V DC (max voltage of many DC throttles).  So the loco will not be able to run very fast.

As far as cost goes, the sound decoders are much more expensive than non-sound decoders. While you can buy low-end sound decoders for around $50 (street price), the good ones will often cost over $100.  That is normal.

Lastly, to me this thread is a perfect candidate for the DCC forum (not Product Discussion) as we are mulling over DCC decoders and their design and operating characteristics. But that is just me...

[reinhardtjh]

Original Question (bold added by me, not Gary):

I would prefer to have ones that provide sound in DC use, so they could be
enjoyed until the I am able to go full DCC

Gary,

    There is good news and bad news.  The good news is that I did some scanning through the Soundtraxx documentation for both the regular Tsunami and the new Econami decoders and it appears they both can be set to produce sounds when running in DC/Analog mode.  The bad news is you will need a programmer setup to make them do such as they are not set that way by default.  I would assume the reasoning is that if you are buying decoders for self-install then you have the means to set them up.  OEM decoders installed by the factory make the assumption that DCC programming abilities are not always present.

For more in-depth (pretty deep!) info look starting at page 50 in the Econami Steam Users Guide and page 55 in the Econami Diesel Users Guide.  There are similar sections in the Tsunami guides as well but a little more obscure there.  I assume you would want the Econami anyway as they are about half the price of the Tsunami decoders ($65 vs $111).

Just how DCC capable are you at this time? Edit: I see in another post you have a PR3 and are learning JMRI so that shouldn't be a problem.

And what kind of DC power packs are you using?

Both the Tsunami and Econami manuals indicate they run better on pure, filtered DC and the pulse-power will make operation erratic.  This in contrast to most pure-DC locomotives which usually run better on the pulses - at least for startup.

 

[glakedylan]

Just how DCC capable are you at this time?

John,
yes, as noted, all I have is the PR3Xtra and JMRI downloaded and operation on PC via USB connect

And what kind of DC power packs are you using?

MRC power packs that do not have pulse or momentum as the earlier do
while I do not know if they are filtered DC I know that they are not causing erratic running like
others have noted while using the pulse DC

Both the Tsunami and Econami manuals indicate they run better on pure, filtered DC and the pulse-power will make operation erratic.  This in contrast to most pure-DC locomotives which usually run better on the pulses - at least for startup.

yes, there seems to be some unfiltered DC at the lowest end of the throttle, causing the sound effects to be somewhat staccato,
not allowing as much whistle as there seems to be in DCC use.

I will be $ challenged for several months due to the K4s and the L1 purchases, and expecting the possibility of the M1 before the year end.

thanks for all the information...it is very appreciated

AND...yes, it is fine to move this to DCC thread/forum section
 

[brill27mcb]

Many of us N PRR steam fans will be $ challenged this year. We've gone from basically nothing to stepping through the alphabet in order: K. L and M.  Too bad we skipped over "H" somehow...  but my cup runneth over.

Rich K.

[dougnelson]

Gary:

My experience with DCC locos in DC environment (BLI locos, and a TCS decoder equipped loco) is that they work, usually sound and all, but they definitely operate better in a DCC environment.  I recently got a Digitrax Zephyr starter set.  My layout had 2-cab DC.  For now I have replaced one of the DC cabs with the Digitrax unit and the transition was completely seamless.  For now, I can switch to the DC cab whenever I want so I can run any locomotive.  Honestly, the transition was incredibly simple.  I can appreciate being $$ challenged at the moment with the K4s and the BLI stuff coming.

[glakedylan]

thanks, Doug
yes, hopefully some time in 2016 I can make the jump to DCC
time will tell 

I have opted out of the centipede preorder
that will save me some $ in 2016, besides
it would look rather silly on a HCD layout