Problems with new Econami Steam sound decoder

[jdcolombo]

Update:

I heard from Soundtraxx, and they have asked me to send the decoder back to them to work on a fix for the chuff matching issue.  So it looks like Carl is correct: they are concerned and already working on a software fix for this.

Will keep you all updated as things progress.

John C.

[carlso]

John, thanks for the update.

On Wednesday, I sent them an e-mail asking when they anticipated having the chuff problem fixed because I really wanted to try one but would not do so with poor chuff synchronization. On Friday, pretty quick response, I had a reply telling me not to hesitate purchasing one of the Eco 100's. Their comment was that if the decoder was not working satisfactorily I could return to them for a fix. Not sure how to interpret that reply. However, I do know from past experiences with their Tsunami 750 that they are great about standing behind their product and very much in tune with satisfying their customer.

Regards,
Carl

[peteski]

So, as I suspected, it might be a firmware (software) oversight.  To me it would make sense to add another CV which could be used for chuff adjustment, or at least give CV114 much larger range of adjustment.

If and when they do fix this problem, I hope that they will sell decoders with the updated code and not just fix only the ones of unhappy modelers attempting to use them in steam engines.

[carlso]

Peteski,

When I stated that I didn't know how to interpret their reply to me, I was thinking about the possibility that when and if a customer complained about the chuff they would offer to fix it. That sort of made me think that they would work on the fix but continue to sell their current stock and fix whatever is complained about by a customer.

However, I have repair experience with them and they were absolutely easy and prompt to deal with. IMHO, the best "customer relations" that they can do is to take the TCS (FEF decoder) approach.

Just my opinion, of course,
Carl

[peteski]

Peteski,

When I stated that I didn't know how to interpret their reply to me, I was thinking about the possibility that when and if a customer complained about the chuff they would offer to fix it. That sort of made me think that they would work on the fix but continue to sell their current stock and fix whatever is complained about by a customer.

However, I have repair experience with them and they were absolutely easy and prompt to deal with. IMHO, the best "customer relations" that they can do is to take the TCS (FEF decoder) approach.

Just my opinion, of course,
Carl

I also wasn't trying to imply that they recall all of the steam versions of the decoder they produced so far to fix them all (assuming they will actually fix them).  I'm sure that the 1st batch they made wasn't the only batch they will ever produce. If or when they do fix the problem I'm hoping that they will incorporate the fix into all of the subsequent batches of this decoder.

[woodone]

Seeing how this decoder will fit into both HO scale and N scale units. I would expect to see far more decoders being used in the HO scale.
There for the N scale user would be the only people how would have the chuff rate problem. If that is the case this would only effect say about 25% of decoders being sold in the steam version only.

[peteski]

Seeing how this decoder will fit into both HO scale and N scale units. I would expect to see far more decoders being used in the HO scale.
There for the N scale user would be the only people how would have the chuff rate problem. If that is the case this would only effect say about 25% of decoders being sold in the steam version only.

While I have not compared gear ratios and motor rpms between H0 and N scale steam locos, I suspect that they are not all that different.  If that is the case then the problem would not be scale-specific.  But I don't have any proof.

[woodone]

I think that it has more to do with the wheel diameter. Gearing could be very much the same but with the wheel diameter being so much smaller with N scale, it could really change the chuff rates.

[peteski]

I think that it has more to do with the wheel diameter. Gearing could be very much the same but with the wheel diameter being so much smaller with N scale, it could really change the chuff rates.

I don't see how wheel diameter would affect this. The gear ratio along with how fast the motor runs at some specific voltage is really the deciding factor.  Regardless of a wheel diameter, there will be 4 chuffs per revolution.

If both H0 and N scale locos have scale 50" diameter drivers and both have a 60:1 gear ratio then a chuff hast to occur every 15 revolutions of the motor's armature (regardless of the model's scale).

Even if the wheel diameter is different on any of the locos, the gear ratio is still the deciding factor.  Even with 80" diameter drivers a chuff would have to occur ever 15 motor's armature revolutions.  For generating chuffs the decoder is sampling the motor speed, not the rotation of the drivers.

[woodone]

Peteski, I believe that you are correct. Maybe it has to do with the load factor effecting the BEMF?

[jdcolombo]

UPDATE:

So it turns out some HO folks were having the same problem with chuff matching.   Soundtraxx has now announced that they will do a free software update that will hopefully fix the problem by doubling the adjustment range for chuff sync.

I sent mine back to them a week ago, so I'm hoping to get a new one to try out sometime soon.

John C.

[peteski]

Great news!

As we already suspected, the problem would not just be with N scale locos - it is all about the motor rpms and gear ratio.  Looks like the programmers either made a boo-boo or they didn't test the decoder's firmware with a large-enough variety of models.

[carlso]

We are now about 10 months from the last posting. Was there ever a positive resolution to this Econami problem or did Soundtraxx just let it fade away ? ?

Carl

[Mike C]

 Yes , it's been fixed !  I have I think 5 different steamers with the Eco 100 in them so far and don't have any problems .  Soundtraxx has just released a new Tsunami that's the same size as the Eco , I may give them a try too .