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Author Topic: Bad Amtrak wreck in Philadelpha  (Read 17678 times)

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Blazeman

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Re: Bad Amtrak wreck in Philadelpha
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2015, 01:09:46 PM »
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Quote from: Ed Kapuscinski on May 13, 2015, 09:02:17 AM

There was a crash there back in 1943, too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankford_Junction_train_wreck

That accident was referenced in a local TV news report as "also an Amtrak train."
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Kisatchie

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Re: Bad Amtrak wreck in Philadelpha
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2015, 01:57:38 PM »
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It seems the train was going over 100 mph as it approached a sharp curve:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/13/amtrak-train-crashes-in-philadelphia-several-people-appear-to-be-injured/


Hmm... you'll never catch
me on an Amtrak train...

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Doug G.

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Re: Bad Amtrak wreck in Philadelpha
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2015, 04:04:41 PM »
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The NTSB has just confirmed the train was going at least 100 MPH.

The engineer is refusing to talk and has lawyered up.

Doug
« Last Edit: May 13, 2015, 04:12:47 PM by Doug G. »
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conrail98

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Re: Bad Amtrak wreck in Philadelpha
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2015, 04:37:11 PM »
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Quote from: Smike on May 13, 2015, 12:58:05 PM
PTC has been on the NE corridor for some time. 

"PTC Systems in the United States
ACSES (Advanced Civil Speed Enforcement System). A transponder-based system, in use on Amtrak's Northeast Corridor originally put into use on the Northeast Corridor by the specific requirements of an Order of Particular Applicability. (Type Approved and Certified by FRA.)"

https://www.fra.dot.gov/Page/P0621

According to other reports I've seen, it isn't on this section. Not sure why it wouldn't be though,

Phil
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Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: Bad Amtrak wreck in Philadelpha
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2015, 05:41:24 PM »
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Quote from: Doug G. on May 13, 2015, 04:04:41 PM
The engineer is refusing to talk and has lawyered up.

It's not surprising. Look how quickly people want to pillory him.

It might be his fault. It might not be his fault. But that's not going to stop CNN/Fox/MSNBC from blaming him.
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Rich_S

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Re: Bad Amtrak wreck in Philadelpha
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2015, 05:50:37 PM »
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Quote from: Ed Kapuscinski on May 13, 2015, 05:41:24 PM
It's not surprising. Look how quickly people want to pillory him.

It might be his fault. It might not be his fault. But that's not going to stop CNN/Fox/MSNBC from blaming him.

Ed, I agree. Too often these days people jump to conclusions before all of the facts are in. I want to know why the NTSB is releasing info before all of the facts have been collected? What else did the event recorder indicate? What was the throttle position? What was the brake pipe pressure? What was the cylinder pressure? Is the date and time stamp on the event recorder accurate? When was the last Routine Maintenance performed on this locomotive? What were the flange and wheel readings taken at the time of the last RM? They also mentioned the track had been inspected before the derailment, but how was it inspected? Was it a visual inspection? or did they use a track geometry car? Was this derailment caused by a broken rail? 
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victor miranda

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Re: Bad Amtrak wreck in Philadelpha
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2015, 06:09:34 PM »
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wow. we are at finger pointing already?

from what I have read, the evidence in video footage shows the train was going over 100 miles per hour.
NTSB is not leaking that I have seen.

I agree there could be many reasons for that speed...
and that more than a few of them are NOT caused by the engineer....
However.
I have a hard time thinking the engineer is not going to be held responsible for this
for any reason short of sabotage.

my head and heart hurt.

edited clarify a point.




« Last Edit: May 13, 2015, 06:12:46 PM by victor miranda »
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conrail98

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Re: Bad Amtrak wreck in Philadelpha
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2015, 06:45:13 PM »
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All the NTSB has said is the speed was 107 when engineer applied emergency brakes going into curve and 102 when the data stopped recording. Essentially, speed is the reason for the derailment. Next up will be why was it going that fast. And they need to act quick on that because what if it is an issue with the new ACS64?

Phil
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Scottl

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Re: Bad Amtrak wreck in Philadelpha
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2015, 06:56:40 PM »
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A terrible tragedy.

It will be interesting to learn why Amtrak had not installed PTC in that section.  Perhaps a technical or budgetary reason?  I do agree with other sentiments expressed above.  We need the full story here to understand what went wrong and how to avoid it in the future.
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Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: Bad Amtrak wreck in Philadelpha
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2015, 07:21:15 PM »
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Quote from: Scottl on May 13, 2015, 06:56:40 PM
A terrible tragedy.

It will be interesting to learn why Amtrak had not installed PTC in that section.  Perhaps a technical or budgetary reason?  I do agree with other sentiments expressed above.  We need the full story here to understand what went wrong and how to avoid it in the future.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/amtrak-budget-house-panel-crash-117904.html

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Rich_S

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Re: Bad Amtrak wreck in Philadelpha
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2015, 08:23:53 PM »
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Quote from: Ed Kapuscinski on May 13, 2015, 07:21:15 PM
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/amtrak-budget-house-panel-crash-117904.html

Ed, Even though I'm against budget cuts for Amtrak, I cannot say the budget cuts are the reason PTC is not installed on that section of the North East Corridor. I don't want to take this thread off topic talking about Amtrak budgets, what trains should be eliminated etc. but I do wish to comment on PTC. My first point is, PTC is not even in effect yet. The railroads do not have to turn PTC on until December of this year. Several railroads are asking congress for an extension. When Positive Train Control is fully implemented, it would have the ability to prevent over speed accidents as long as a catastrophic failure does not occur. I know many people tend to confuse PTC with LSL and LEADER. PTC was mandated by congress in 2008 and is suppose to be turned on December 2015. LSL (Locomotive Speed Limiter) applies to freight trains using NEC tracks equipped with EL, Ultra Cab 1 and Ultra Cab 2 cab signals. LEADER, the system NS is currently using is actually designed for fuel conservation, but works in conjunction with PTC. Currently LEADER is functional on NS, PTC is not. So long story short, trying to say "OH My" Amtrak is not using PTC on this section of the NEC is almost the same as saying "Oh My" Amtrak is not using Tier IV compliant diesel electric locomotives.  Final note, I do not work for Amtrak, so I do not know how many of their locomotives are equipped with PTC, I do work for a freight railroad and I do know a very large percentage of our road locomotives are equipped with the basic PTC equipment.         
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up1950s

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Re: Bad Amtrak wreck in Philadelpha
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2015, 08:35:00 PM »
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I want to know the drug test results . How about a 1 mile ahead trip that starts a loco facing billboard size flashing 50 MPH CURVE just 200 feet before the curve . Low cost . Couple that with infractions mandating points given to an engineers license depending on severity and frequency of infraction will keep an eye out for those signs . 
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Richie Dost

tom mann

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Re: Bad Amtrak wreck in Philadelpha
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2015, 08:53:25 PM »
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What are they saying about the gun shot damage on the front windshield of 601?
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conrail98

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Re: Bad Amtrak wreck in Philadelpha
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2015, 09:02:08 PM »
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Quote from: tom mann on May 13, 2015, 08:53:25 PM
What are they saying about the gun shot damage on the front windshield of 601?

Where have you seen this Tom?

Phil
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tom mann

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Re: Bad Amtrak wreck in Philadelpha
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2015, 09:03:29 PM »
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