N scale freight car parts: End / Roof / Underframe Suppliers

[SandyEggoJake]

Thanks again to all those that answered my call for help sourcing 20" or 24" N scale metal wheels.  Turns out I was too fast to assume Z 33" gauge (converting to 24" N) would not work well on my N gauge yard. (What is that old saw about when you ASSume?)  (Ref: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=36059.0)  (Still hearing nothing as a source for 20" N metal.)

Unintentionally, an off handed comment on my desire for a source of Murphy car ends, roofs & underframes spawned a subtopic on freight car parts.  To promote clarity (but mostly to help me find this thread later), after doing a search on the board for "Freight car ends" etc and not finding anything, I propose to start a new thread.

I've already mentioned one obvious sources: scratch, bashing RTR or scavenging parts from complete kits.  And 3DP or pouring molds is beyond the scope here intended to be limited to sourcing of parts from existing suppliers.  So I propose a new thread, limited to N Scale thread just on A) Freight Cars and further more just (B) Ends, Roofs, Sides.  (Both unfinished shells and loose sprues).    (Note there is already an active and informative thread on this board about Passenger Car cores that has expanded to details here: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=33698.0)
     
To start off, I ask the board its opinion on,  what are your favs for best online listings of N gauge freight car parts & details   (analogous to that by Mr. Laboda on what's available (or has been available) in for N passenger cars:  http://n-scalevarnish.info/index/varnish/UsersGuide/, or the incomplete steam era HO list at: http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/modeling/parts/partsmain.html)
To summarize the relevant bits from the other thread, my wish is for a vendor selling loose sprues of car ends, roof and underframes – more specifically 36’ & 40’ Murphy roofs and underframes, as well as 5-5-5 and 7-8 Murphy car ends with A&B detail.

Otherwise, allow me to summarize the comments offers so far.  Ryan mentioned that MTL direct and their dealers sell parts.  I can confirm MTL sells details (I’ve bought their loose doors, ladders, brake wheels, and roofwalks … not to mention more couplers and trucks that my understanding wife would appreciate should she discover!)  But on Ryan’s suggestion, I’ve sent an email to MTL and they quickly confirmed that they will also sell underframes, even as such is not listed on their webpage.  (Thank you again Ryan!)

“We sell metal underframes for all our bodystyles.  The underframes are $1.95 each plus shipping.  Undecorated shells are not available.  The closest we have are undecorated cars that contain everything in a regular car with the exception of a plain shell.  The undecs can be found on our website at www.micro-trains.com”

So while open to hearing about other sources for under frames, we do have at least one option in MTL.

But still no unpainted shells or car ends & roof parts.  Yes, MTL did suggest their painted undecs, but I find such a hardly a price break off their RTR, and still not optimal as I’ve been busy swapping MTL trucks or at least plastic wheels for metal.

Bryan kindly mentioned Intermountain as a possible source.  I can attest they sell quality HO kits and parts, but their part offering in N (at least of the parts on their webpage) is limited to shells) (no loose roof or ends, would seem underframes are molded together with the shell.  But they do offer some such loose roof and ends in HO).   For N, many of their shells are missing photos and none of them have photos of the end detail.  No matter, as I doubt they have any with my sought as 5-5-5 and 7-8 Murphy car ends.  In HO, there is no shortage, with great options for end & roof sprues from Westerfield, Sunshine, Speedwitch Media and others – none of whom as yet sell N. 

So… any other thoughts for existing suppliers of freight car ends and roof sprues (or even unpainted shells/ cores or flat PE Brass car sides)?

[Missaberoad]

What you're looking for doesn't exist per say, at least not to the extent it does in HO...

Intermountain Kits are a good source of parts and can be found on ebay (they have also started making limited runs alongside there assembled/painted models)

An incomplete list...

5/4 dreadnought end
4/4 improved dreadnought end
40' raised panel roof
40' diagonal panel roof
50' raised panel roof
6' door Youngstown corrugated
6' door Superior
8' door Youngstown corrugated

Beyond that its mostly a matter of cutting up shells to get the parts you need... Atlas' USRA boxcars have 5-5-5 and 7-8 Murphy ends depending on the car. The 1932 ARA boxcar has 4-4 dreadnought ends, a Murphy panel roof, a Hutchins radial roof.

I would love to see a company make roofs/ends/doors/brake gear in N but I imagine the market is pretty small...

[sirenwerks]

ExactRail has started selling its box car roofs separately.  Trainworx sells some parts, IIRC, and i remember seeing one of the etching companes doing some boxcar doors, but don't remember which. Personally, I'd love to see a manufacturer fill this void as a dedicated product line, rather than trying to get spare parts from car manufacturers. Bring back Sunrise! Or maybe this would be a nitch Showcase Miniatures could fill? It handles small castings so well and the white metal would be an added source of weight for our light rolling stock.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Its not hard at all to remove car ends and car sides from the rest of the model if you do not need the rest of the panels. I did this with my FGE cars.

[SandyEggoJake]

Thanks again, Ryan.  Me too.

But to be clear, I assume you mean that loose sprues of freight car ends and roofs are not yet offered for sale in N (outside of kits), yes?    Or do you also mean an online N scale freight car detail list does not yet exist (such as it does for N Passenger cars or HO freight)? 

As I suspect you already know (but for the benefit of others) some of the detail you name (brakes & doors) are available from MTL direct and via their dealers, as well as other sources (Tichy for brake staff, BLMA for cut levers & ladders, Detail Associates cast parts for undercarriage brake gear, etc, etc).   But as for loose sprues and/or freight car cores, unless someone can prove me wrong, I'm forced to agree such doesn't yet exist in N.  I also agree it is likely a small market.  And perhaps only getting smaller as 3DP improves.

You have already mentioned one of my go to for 5-5-5's (when I can pick them up for a song 2nd hand).  Works for the odd model, here and there.  Not really for a fleet.  Even so, such is clearly suboptimal to buy dusty RTR at zany auction prices to source parts in N (rather than getting new & clean for a few bucks as one can in HO).

[SandyEggoJake]

Thx sirenwerks!

Interesting...that's news to me.  So in fact Exactrail, has started to make such an offering.  Seems so far just roofs and just three later model types.  No car ends.  But that is an excellent development! 

4 roofs for $11 + shipping isn't a bad price point. 

[sirenwerks]

I know freight car core kits is kind of a moot point since building a styrene box is easy enough to the needed length/width, but I think etched freight car sides are a latent market for box cars and reefers, maybe even stock cars.  Of course, regular sources of ends and doors (if not etched) would be necessary.

[arx nakanishi]

I have pics of N scale model boxcar ends and doors on my blog; not all but I'll be glad if they may help you

 doors, youngstown 1: http://riogrande.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2012-09-27
 doors, youngstown 2: http://riogrande.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2012-09-27-1
 doors, superior & pullman: http://riogrande.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2012-09-27-2

 ends, murphy: http://riogrande.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2014-06-15
 ends, pullman: http://riogrande.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2014-06-15-1
 ends, stanray 1: http://riogrande.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2014-06-15-2
 ends, stanray 2: http://riogrande.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2014-06-15-3
 ends, non-terminating: http://riogrande.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2014-06-15-4

Hiroshi
BOXCAR RED COLLECTION
http://riogrande.blog.so-net.ne.jp/

[Missaberoad]

Wonderful resource! Thank you very much...

[SandyEggoJake]

Thx Hiroshi,  That is inspiring.

Would be great to have a master list of RTR rolling stock with key features indexed (to sort and filter) with photos.  Sort of an expanded vision / open sourced version of the already impressive effort Mark is doing at http://www.spookshow.net/freight/freight.html

(Speaking of which, I've recently been begging George Irwin to index of his past Unofficial Micro-Trains UMTRR reviews (http://www.irwinsjournal.com/umtrr/) So far no luck, even though I've offered to do all the work myself to create a hypertexted index,  if he merely agreed to post it on his website and provide me copies of his reviews since 2010 when he has stopped populating them his archive.

[SandyEggoJake]

I just got a PM suggesting I review the parts offerings of Bowser and Fine-N-Scale (in addition the those parts already mentioned at MTL).

http://www.bowserorders.com/.sc/ms/cat/N%20Bowser%20Parts  (thought it very much blows that they don't have pictures and rather poor descriptions!)

http://www.finenscale.com/rollingstock.html  (only a few parts - mostly kits - but does in include  40' truss rod chassis to slap under MTL reefers, as well as tanks to slap on to flat cars.)

(Please note I have no connections with any of these vendors.)

[SandyEggoJake]

I've been continuing my hunt.  So far, little else to report.  I've reached out to a few of the HO kit guys to see if they would have interest to do N scale roofs, sides and ends, and I'm getting a mixed response. 

Bottom line; the issue for all is - as always - A) is there demand in N Scale enough to overcome B) the costs of setting up new dies / molds. 

Sooo.... my question to the board... is there? 

N now has quality trucks and wheelsets (from various vendors).  We have reasonably priced car underframes (from MTL).  And an assortment of detail parts (doors, brake gear, etc.)  With off the shelf doors, building car sides (from styrene) is relatively simple?  And while off the shelf decals can be spotty, but alps printers are still spitting stuff out for those who seek something more unique that the same as the next guy RTR stuff.  Finally, we now have one brave vendor (Exactrail) with a toe in the water with three different car roofs (X-panel, Diagonal and Pullman standard 50"). 

But car ends?  Nada.  And so far, I've not be able to make them look good from scratch in N.

So ... to my question.... is there anyone else out there who would build more classic boxcars in N scale if you had source from which to buy say injection molded car ends, say designed to fit MTL underframes?  Also, which car ends would you want?  For me, the need is USRA cars so Murphy 5/5/5 and 7/8, but I suspect an equal (perhaps greater?) demand for the later Dreadnaughts & Dartnaughts.  And of course, I'd also like to see some other (earlier) options in roofs.  What else?

 

[bbussey]

Thought this was covered in an earlier thread, but you have the option of salvaging parts from existing models. The three Atlas USRA boxcars, for example, have end variations that cover what you seek. The various roofs and ends can be salvaged from their ARA 1932 Boxcar models.

There simply isn't the market that will support mass production of N scales freight car parts in the variety you are seeking. And there is no need when you can take a razor saw to existing models to get most if not all of the parts you want.

[SandyEggoJake]

And there is no need when you can take a razor saw to existing models to get most if not all of the parts you want.

That's were we "part" company.   

IMHO, while some car ends have been well modeled, a few of the more unique ones are still missing in N world.  And most of the cars in the price point I look at to scrape are older crap modeled rather shoddy. 

Example 1:  Take for example the AT&SF FeP.  Not familiar with it?  Hit up "boxcar" on wiki.  That's one under the wing of the Spirit of St. Louis.  I know - it is an AT&SF house class  "furniture car" - and a modification of an different AT&SF house car style - the Bx-3/6 class.  But if you model SoCal in the late twenties like I do, these odd balls make up a healthy part of the revenue fleet, bringing autos to SoCal (and putting the passenger lines even more in the red).  The roof is a snap.  The odd signature hat shaped vertical bracing?  Done.  The underframe and 1.5 door?  MTL has them.  But look again at the height.... those ends are odd ball Murphy 7-5-5s.  So I'm gapping a 5-5-5 or using top from a 7/8 and a bottom from a Murphy 5/5/5.   My two attempts were just those and not passing (I was foolishly trying to join near the rivets like the car shop did).  Now on attempt 3, I'm splicing a 7/8 to a 5/5/5 but this time between some of the fins of the 8, which is making for a much less noticeable joint.   

But let us also consider that .... I'm a wimp.   I find no small remorse in going all Frankenstein on cars "not dead yet". 

Example 2:  I was seeking a truss rod 36' frame and I got a swap meet steal on an undec MTL wood side reefer, mint but without a case.  Somehow even the vert brake staff survived.  But even as I bought it just for the project on the cheap  .... well ... I couldn't bring myself to cut it.  Too perfect.  So I've popped it into a new MTL case, and picked out paint and decals for yet another addition of my billboard boxcar fleet.  What about my underframe need?  For another $2 I got one directly from MTL and with some left over PE & styrene, made my own like I should have to start. 

But those stamped car ends?  May be its  me.  Just like the railroads did, I would find it more efficient to buy such parts and "rebuild" my own for less price per car of than it would cost if I scrapped a few new MTL RTR or prepainted IM kits.  And I wouldn't need to waste time removing pre molded ladders and puttying over predrilled holes I have no use for.


Soooo ... how many box cars would need to meet there maker to build one of these?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Santa-Fe-ATSF-170281-Ga-6-rebuilt-with-boxcar-ends-gondola-car-8x10-photo-/371314658123?nma=true&si=X92N%252FpvNhL1YZRAhnea5Q6KhBRo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 

Oh the humanity! 

(Seriously, thx for the feedback.  Others?)

[peteski]

Feedback? Plain and simple: it ain't happening in N scale.  I suspect that even in H0 scale the number of scratch-building supplies is slowly dwindling.  In N scale the size of a market for these type of items is almost non-existent.  Lets be realistic here.

The number of ready-to-run super-detailed models coming from factories with correct road-name-specific details  keeps growing.  The number of craftsman-type of modelers keeps shrinking. Majority of new modelers entering the hobby just wants to run (not build) their models.  Even if they have to pay premium prices.

In N scale the number of modelers who want to use detailing parts like the ones you mention is even lower than in H0.   I would speculate that maybe 2% of H0 modelers and less than 1% of N scale modelers in U.S. (and fewer in other countries) would have any use for the parts you would like to see produced.

Let's face it, it  would not be economical for any company to invest in such a small market.

The other elephant in the room of the detailing parts for modeling specific prototypes is 3D printing.  More and more modelers are turning to that media for producing very accurate models.  Why try to cobble up some boxcar which needs X ends, Y sides, and Z roof or doors when you can design and print the exact model you want in a single operation?  That to me is the future for the craftsman-type modelers.  What I see is maybe libraries of standard model parts being developed so you can virtually build your model in a CAD program, then have it 3D printed.