Atlas S4 in N scale?

[sirenwerks]

Not that I and many others wouldn't like an Atlas S4 but why would they rush to market with an S4?.... They have just delivered most of the first run of the S2, there are what, fifty new road names and schemes to do to satisfy tens of thousands of modellers with an S2...? Why take away from S2 sales by splitting the buying public's limited dollars and offering two similar models that appeal to similar segments of the same market? It wouldn't be a financial decision I'd make..... Sometimes we must wait for a model simply because the "market" isn't ready or ripe for it..... at least from the manufacturer's stand point.

Hmmm, with that line of thinking, Atlas should wait to do each model until the satisfaction for the current is complete?  Say, wait to do the GP30 until everyone has their hearts' content of GP9s?  Huh?  Hmmm, Ford makes a car, so Chevy shouldn't?

It's been pointed out the cab on the Bachmann S4 isn't right.  So Atlas can 'whip up' a cab and trucks and offer a correct version to compete on one of the many levels to compete on other than generic product description  (e.g. price, quality, availability, service, etc.)

[peteski]

I think Bachmann did an acceptable job.  And as far as running, with its wider wheel-treads the Bachmann runs more smoothly than the S2.

That is the problem. Some TRW members think that acceptable is not good enough when with just a tiny bit of additional effort or research the same model could be excellent!  Not looking for perfection - just a better executed model.

Some of us don't want to go through life accepting acceptable models.   

As far as the wide thread goes, I don't see how narrower thread would be worse for electric pickup. That makes no sense to me. As long as the thread is wide enough to ride on the rail-head, the electric pickup should be good.

I actually have the opposite problem with wide Bachmann wheels (on Acela).  The thread is so wide that the wheels short out the tracks exiting the frog on Peco insulfrog  turnouts.  It is a pain when running DCC (since the train stalls as it trips the breaker).  My plan is to replace those with narrower thread wheels from Kato.

[sizemore]

Some of us don't want to go through life accepting acceptable models.   

The thread is so wide that the wheels short out the tracks exiting the frog on Peco insulfrog  turnouts.

Yet, you're still using Peco Insulfrog turnouts. 


The S.

[peteski]

Yet, you're still using Peco Insulfrog turnouts. 


The S.

Yes, on a 30+ year old N-Trak yard module we use.  The track is solid and reliable - no reason to replace it. The problematic Bachmann wide-wheels are non-NMRA compliant. 

Part of the problem is that the Acela wheel thread is non tapered. Iif it was tapered (like most other wheels are) then this would not be a problem.  Plus the very wide wheels look crappy.

[coosvalley]

Not that I and many others wouldn't like an Atlas S4 but why would they rush to market with an S4?.... They have just delivered most of the first run of the S2, there are what, fifty new road names and schemes to do to satisfy tens of thousands of modellers with an S2...? Why take away from S2 sales by splitting the buying public's limited dollars and offering two similar models that appeal to similar segments of the same market? It wouldn't be a financial decision I'd make..... Sometimes we must wait for a model simply because the "market" isn't ready or ripe for it..... at least from the manufacturer's stand point.

I, respectfully, disagree with this outlook, only because we're not talking tons of new tooling here......The way I see it, it's hardly a different locomotive, just a different cab and trucks.....how many models come with more than one option for trucks or, for instance, dynamic brake detail?..Atlas U23B's come to mind, with AAR, Blombergs, or FB-2's available,... Does this hurt sales , or increase them??...The S2 is so close to an S4 already, yet I bet we have to wait a few years for the S4 from Atlas....which,IMHO, will make many resort to purchasing B-mann S4's, and that will be a greater threat to sales for Atlas...The S2 was basically a 90+% sellout on MBK within 48 hours, so I would say Atlas has a winner here, sales-wise, and I bet this trend continues....And, since hardly any of us are talking about it, it must be a good loco!!!!!!!...If it had lots of problems, this thread would be 25 pages long by now!!!!

There is a lesson here about limited appeal vs. mass appeal models, I can think of at least 10 S2's(even more S4's!) I would buy or like to paint for myself, vs. the (gorgeous) Rapido GMD-1, which I have never seen a proto , and therefore, do not need.....I understand this is not true for everyone, but I think you get my meaning.I only use this comparison because they are both small engines that come with sound...

So, while I don't expect to see an S4 from Atlas anytime soon, I think that they should NOT wait to and let the S2 "run it's course"...In fact, the two could be released together, as if they are the same model, not unlike their GP-7s and GP-9s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....Well, enough wishing....

I do have a question for the Atlas S2 and B'mann S4 owners out there, how noticeable is the difference in hood widths? I've heard that the B-mann is too wide?...This probably means the cabs won't fit/ look right if swapped, and this is why I have a pet peeve about hood widths.....YMMV..

[bbussey]

The modeler's desire to have models of a certain prototype are not always aligned with the practical business aspects regarding said models.

It makes absolutely no business sense at all for Atlas to release an S4 model anytime in the immediate future or within the next few years. The Bachmann model is more than adequate at filling the void. Let's not fall under the false impression that there is a "need" for a certain model when a slightly-less-than 100% accurate ready-to-run option already exists.

This is supposed to be a modelers forum, not an accumulators forum.

[coosvalley]

This is supposed to be a modelers forum, not an accumulators forum.

I was under the impression this was why a product discussion forum was added, so we could discuss things freely, not distracting from the modeling on the other boards...

[Puddington]

The "N scale switcher market" (or any market segment for that matter has a finite number of possible dollars revenue in it for any given period of time. If there are no products available, a portion of that revenue gets transferred to other segments but some gets held back and not spent. If there are five products in that segment (I just picked a number) then they will split the pot to whatever degree the market determines. If you add a products, you don't usually add revenue, or, at least not any significant amount of revenue. You just re-distribute the revenue.... and the costs.

I'm sure that Atlas has a plan to supply other Alco switchers; but those plans are based on a time line of rolling them out that maximizes the initial tooling investment and ensures that offerings will be as well subscribed as possible.

With my manufacturer's hat on; "it's all about the money, honey"; and not about the selection for the modeller..... we'll get to the next model when we exhaust this one.....

[reinhardtjh]

I would buy S1's right along with S2's (or S4's) if the right road names were available.  Even despite the fact I have 2 undec S2's on order to paint up as S1's

But I'm sure Atlas has a plan

[Ed Kapuscinski]

It makes absolutely no business sense at all for Atlas to release an S4 model anytime in the immediate future or within the next few years. The Bachmann model is more than adequate at filling the void. Let's not fall under the false impression that there is a "need" for a certain model when a slightly-less-than 100% accurate ready-to-run option already exists.

I have to disagree about this.

It might be if you think of model as "locomotive" but not "locomotive + paint scheme".

Bachmann has this horrible habit of doing a handful of paint schemes on a model, with very few road numbers, and then not much else.

How many variations of the 44 tonner have there been? If Atlas had done them, they might be onto their third release of industry lettered ones by now.

That's a good thing!

Case in point: Atlas did the SD24. There weren't many paint schemes on them, but Atlas has pretty much done all of them (including the short lived MMID scheme). Because the MMID scheme was available, I bought them. Did I care enough about MMID SD24s to ever paint my own? Nope. But Atlas created some demand that didn't exist before, and then filled it (and their own coffers with some of my money that might've otherwise gone toward a bottle of Makers Mark).

Lots of purchases are like that.

I probably wouldn't have painted my own Reading GP7, or GP30, but because Atlas made them in that paint scheme, I bought some. Doesn't matter that Bachmann did a GP7, it's not in paint schemes that would make me a buyer, but Atlas had schemes, and I therefore bought them.

That doesn't mean I'm not a modeler (I've since done some work to all aforementioned engines), but I'd be less of one if I didn't have these raw materials to start from.

[coosvalley]

If there are five products in that segment (I just picked a number) then they will split the pot to whatever degree the market determines. If you add a products, you don't usually add revenue, or, at least not any significant amount of revenue. You just re-distribute the revenue.... and the costs.

Lets say there are 5 small switchers in the market, I would think in the future there will be even more competition in the small switcher market!!!!!......I do understand that they may not want to flood the market with small switchers, but does the fact that GP-7s are available mean that GP-9s somehow suffer in sales?(I use this example because they look an awful lot alike, just like S2 and S4s..)...The fact that they keep releasing them both tells me otherwise....I feel like what some are saying is that the availability of S4's would somehow hurt sales of The S2's...for me, personally, this simply isn't the case...I've bought all of the S2's that I wanted, and don't see myself picking up many more, simply because I have no need for more....my wallet, however, is ready for S4's....I won't buy more S2's simply because there are no S4's ......!

I bet, with the rapid improvement of 3D printing, I bet it won't be long before we can swap out truck frames for a 3d printed version, at least taking care of the truck spotting feature....The cab(with glass! seems less likely....I would take an S4 with incorrect windows for now.....what about the rest of you?

I would buy S1's right along with S2's (or S4's) if the right road names were available.  Even despite the fact I have 2 undec S2's on order to paint up as S1's

These are great little locos, but, if you have to paint the frame, you will like it a little less....this entirely new design is less friendly(compared to typical Atlas diesels) for those of us who like to decorate our own...

[sirenwerks]

The modeler's desire to have models of a certain prototype are not always aligned with the practical business aspects regarding said models.

It makes absolutely no business sense at all for Atlas to release an S4 model anytime in the immediate future or within the next few years. The Bachmann model is more than adequate at filling the void. Let's not fall under the false impression that there is a "need" for a certain model when a slightly-less-than 100% accurate ready-to-run option already exists.

This is supposed to be a modelers forum, not an accumulators forum.

And you wouldn't have a dog in this fight because you don't need/want S4 because NH didn't have any?  Let's say LL only made the FA2, would you not want LL (or anyone else) to make the FA1 (as a NH fan) or would you live with that foob?

[sizemore]

And you wouldn't have a dog in this fight because you don't need/want S4 because NH didn't have any?  Let's say LL only made the FA2, would you not want LL (or anyone else) to make the FA1 (as a NH fan) or would you live with that foob?

You're comparing an apple (the FA2) to an orange (the FA1). The current argument is that Atlas should produce raspberries (the S4), even though Bachmann is already in the raspberry business (its S4). This has nothing to do with Bryan liking raspberries. This has everything to do with what is the best decision for Atlas in the fruit business. Everyone is arguing that because Atlas makes the best damn blackberries (the S2) in town, they should get into the raspberry business. Is it logical for Atlas to get into the raspberry business because they can make a slightly better raspberry? Is there really a benefit FOR ATLAS to get into the raspberry market, when they'd be in direct competition with Bachmann? As Puddington has already stated, C.R.E.A.M. (look it up!). And honestly it doesnt make sense, when Bachmanns raspberries are good enough for Grandmas raspberry pie. Why would Grandma pay more for raspberries when they taste the same? Is every Grandma on the planet going to pay more money for little benefit in taste? Probably not when they can get Bachmanns raspberries that taste good enough.

Its much more logical for Atlas to produce dewberries (the S1), or mulberries (the S5/6). Sharing the marketspace with Bachmann and they both win (to a degree) on the grocers shelves.

The S.
 

[peteski]

I enjoyed reading about the fruit salad - nice!  How then you explain the almost simultaneous releases of some of the various F-units by multiple manufacturers?

[coosvalley]

What N scale really needs is an Alco PA...