Would railways have run RPO's and Mail/baggage cars in the same train?

[Paradise275]

With the coming of MTL's new Mail/Baggage car, I was wondering if railways would have run an RPO and Mail/Baggage in the same train. If so, in what order and what direction would the Mail/Baggage face? Would the mail compartment be forward and the baggage aft to protect the mail portion of the car? Would the RPO run in front of the Mail/Baggage for the same reason?

Rick

[GN63]

I can't tell you what they would have been in the era represented by the new MT cars, but in the 60s, before the mail contracts were lost to the railroads, RPOs and baggage cars would run together.  On the trains I was familiar with, Great Northern's Empire Builder and Western Star, the RPO would be directly behind the engines, then the baggage car. Byron

[Paradise275]

That I understand, but would there be a mail/baggage car with an RPO in the same train?

Rick

[eric220]

In theory, there is a diaphragm'd connection between the two, so they could be run as a unified RPO. I don't have any specific evidence that it was done, however.

[thomasjmdavis]

I would go with a "yes" on that.  Especially during heavy mail times, like at Christmas- or on routes between major cities that needed more capacity.  The RPO end of the combine would be coupled to the full RPO creating 90' of RPO capacity.  Check the first listing for the Fast Mail at http://santafe.gmbus.com/ - lists a 60' RPO and a mail baggage car.  Later in life, the Fast Mail might carry as many as 3 full RPOs.  From what I have read, it was not uncommon to use the baggage end of a combine for mail storage, accumulating sorted mail for the final destination.

Tom D

[nkalanaga]

It could also be done if a train split somewhere on the route, with sections going to separate destinations.  The main destination would get an RPO, the secondary section, with less business, a mail-baggage car.  This wasn't common, but did occur.

[Paradise275]

Thanks to all and Tom, your link answered the question perfectly. Especially for trains running before 1949 where they list Mail/Baggage and RPO's (plus Mail storage in additiona Baggage cars). Thus the need for more Head End equipment!

Rick

[jmlaboda - RIP]

You would not have seen this happen on a "Named" train, at least not the top train service offered by various roads, but on lesser runs that traveled a good distance you would have seen them in use together, probably with one or more storage mail cars (sometimes baggage cars being used for storage mail or a storage mail car itself) between them.  Separate destinations may not have been an issue either, what would have mattered was the need to handle a huge volume of mail on a specific run.

Examples also exist of where the mail cars were placed on both ends of a train, where they would be destined for separate locations.  Such could be a straight mail car or a baggage - mail and many times one or more storage mail cars would accompany each RPO, with the RPO end of a baggage - mail being coupled to storage mail cars.

If you want road specific consists the best place to look for such is the Passenger Train Consists List at Yahoo! Groups.  There are many train consists that have been posted, both general consist (information that railroads themselves would employee when determining what each train should carry) as well as actual consists.  For a passenger car fan, like myself, it is truly a treasure worth digging for!!!

[nkalanaga]

Jerry:  You're right that it wouldn't have been the first-class train.  On the GN, during the steam era, it was the Fast Mail. and in the latter years, the Western Star.  The Empire Builder did have an RPO, but most of the mail went on the secondary train.

For a freelancer, this would be a good way to double the passenger traffic, especially if one likes head-end cars.

[chicken45]

I remember reading something about an RPO being sandwiched between tow baggage cars for mail storage. The cars were sealed once full or something.

[thomasjmdavis]

Well, the Super Chief carried an RPO west of Kansas City for much of its life, hard to find a more "first class" train than that (not to mention, even mail trains were usually "first class" for schedule purposes, "second class" being time sensitive freight trains on many roads).  Not sure that it ever carried two RPOs, but would not be a shock if they did at Christmas time, when their would be a lot of last minute, special delivery mail.  In later years, the San Fran Chief carried sealed mail containers on flat cars.  By the mid-late 1960s, a lot of "name trains" looked not unlike a mixed train of the 1940s- the front end loaded with box express cars, and maybe even a couple of TOFC, a couple of unwashed coaches and maybe a sleeper tied on the end.  The Hummingbird, a train advertised in the 1950s as taking no checked baggage so it could make its schedule, had more head end cars than passenger cars by the mid 60s.

[chicken45]

Well, the Super Chief carried an RPO west of Kansas City for much of its life, hard to find a more "first class" train than that (not to mention, even mail trains were usually "first class" for schedule purposes, "second class" being time sensitive freight trains on many roads).  Not sure that it ever carried two RPOs, but would not be a shock if they did at Christmas time, when their would be a lot of last minute, special delivery mail.  In later years, the San Fran Chief carried sealed mail containers on flat cars.  By the mid-late 1960s, a lot of "name trains" looked not unlike a mixed train of the 1940s- the front end loaded with box express cars, and maybe even a couple of TOFC, a couple of unwashed coaches and maybe a sleeper tied on the end.  The Hummingbird, a train advertised in the 1950s as taking no checked baggage so it could make its schedule, had more head end cars than passenger cars by the mid 60s.

Right. The number one top train in the history of railroading, The Broadway Limited, carried an RPO all the time. It just didn't carry any dedicated baggage cars. It usually carried a BM70 variant which was baggage and mail.

[MVW]

The March issue of RMC had a nice piece on modeling the UP/SP Fast Mail trains of the 1950s. Both RPOs and bulk mail were common in the consist.

(BTW, hats off to White River for sprucing up the magazine. Very noticeable upgrades to design and stock. RMC has never looked better.)

Jim

[jmlaboda - RIP]

Right. The number one top train in the history of railroading, The Broadway Limited, carried an RPO all the time.

But the thread is about using an RPO and a baggage - mail in the same train, which would not have happened on the top of the line named trains... not whether a named train carried a mail car or not.

The Hummingbird, a train advertised in the 1950s as taking no checked baggage so it could make its schedule, had more head end cars than passenger cars by the mid 60s.

By the '60s most were on life support and carrying express and mail was one way to reduce some of the losses.  Something else to consider... what happened to the separate mail and express trains that previously ran the route... chances are they were combined with trains like the Hummingbird, allowing one (or more) trains to be discontinued while the survivor kept on a movin'...

[chicken45]

But the thread is about using an RPO and a baggage - mail in the same train, which would not have happened on the top of the line named trains... not whether a named train carried a mail car or not.

That's actually the point I was trying to make. The post before me drifted and I tried to set it on course by stating it was THE name train and that it ONLY ran an RPO.