What is your comfortable-sized layout ideal?

[OldEastRR]

This isn't just a big vs. little discussion, it's what feels and looks right to each of us. Model rails have desires and dreams for all kinds of layouts but sometimes they find the desired ones they started somehow are not satisfying what they need.
When it comes to layout size I'm most comfortable with a mid-size, roughly 12'x10' space, give or take a foot in either direction. (this for N scale). And continuous running, but ability to run point to point. I prefer twice, twice and a half, or even 3 times around if it can be done without overwhelming the space (you'd have to model heavy rail traffic city scenes). I also loathe hidden track -- I try to  avoid any section of it longer than a foot.
On the other hand anything 4x8 or under is too small for me to do anything other than a sectional scene like a big industry or seaport. And those whoppers that fill the basement with multi-levels, have staging tracks in one room and an extension branch into another must need a basketball team-sized crew or larger to run, work on, and maintain. I don't mind watching trains spin quickly around somebody's HCD layout or take 15 minutes to make one circuit around a giant one (longer if you include helixes) but having a layout where a train takes a while (at cruising speed) to circle the main, then disappears into another scene on the other side of the layout behind a backdrop or mountain range momentarily before it comes back around for another circuit seems the most comfortable to me. And also lets me run really long trains without chasing my own caboose or observation. Plus the job of building and running it is not too much work for one but it can accommodate a few more without getting crowded. The completion time is right for me: not something so small it's basically done in less than a year (or a month), or so big it'll take 20 years to finish.
I really need to update/redo my layout construction thread someday.

[mark dance]

For me a layout is a complicated electro-mechanical machine designed and built to entertain.  This means - again, for me - something that will keep 5-8 operators entertained for 3-4 hours once per month. 

My choices have been to build a layout that attempts to support TT&TO ops in a pleasant environment on an aesthetically pleasing and highly reliable layout. I try do this with a single track mainline of about 7 scale miles supporting 5 wayfrieght and yard switching jobs of varying complexity each of which take the full session to run and also provide a number of other jobs to occupy others and give TT&TO substance.  I started with the trains which in turn drove the layout design.

I haven't analyzed what this means in terms of layout size as this is an outcome of the objectives (and scale chosen of course) but my gut feel is anything larger than the ~350 sq. ft. I currently have might hit up against maintenance or crew availability constraints, and anything much less than this size might not provide either the necessary comfort - as the aisle size would be too tight - or meet the TT&TO/job complexity requirements.

Aside: we recently have tried modifying the operating schema to increase the number and variety of trains run.  While it has been successful it means at least 1 and preferably 2 more operators guaranteed per session.  Any less and things won't function.  Late cancellations are the absolute worst as there is no time to rejig the line ups.  I have had to scramble the last couple of sessions to find those people due to other commitments and late cancellations!

md   

[Dave V]

I think I could comfortably fill a moderately-sized bedroom, but not beyond that.  The time and money involved would overwhelm me.

HCDs are nice because you can detail the crap out of them without breaking the calendar or the bank, but they're very limited in operation.  My 12x16 bedroom in the basement would be perfectly-sized for a single walk-in style layout that I could reasonably expect to afford and finish in a few years' time.  Instead it'll host 2 smaller layouts!   

[rickb773]

My original layout was an 18'x19' "L" with access on 5 of 6 "sides". As a lone wolf, it was about all I could handle and only partially set up for operations. It never reached full completion. It did occupy the grandkids by running 4 unattended trains on long mainlines.

I have now filled a 12'x 17' loft and if I wasn't piling up the years, I would consider burrowing into the storage room and consuming 2 more 12' walls. As it is, the current layout was designed to model my hometown areas in the period of my youth and set up for operations, not by following your train, but (2) tower oriented with a lot of switching. The towers seem to be balanced with one dominated by a yard and city industrial switching and the other containing a junction yard , 3 towns, and some staging. As we prepare for our 3rd op session, it seems to have fulfilled both its purposes well. Operations consumes 5 operators (with me happily harassing/directing the other 4). With no one else around, it can run 2 (to 4) trains unattended on a 3 scale mile double tracked mainline.

So to the initial thread theme: it "looks right" for me since it contains my hometowns and "feels right" because it operates well with a bunch of fun loving friends. It will probably take another 2 to 3 years to finish the second round of scenery and re-wire the control panels. So it is all I can handle at the moment. If I lost the operating friends (and I have already lost one to his heavenly reward), the layout would lose a chunk of its purpose and I could actually see then returning to a 4'x8' mountainous layout with a small "L" extension containing a yard and some staging tracks. So: 12'x17' now and potentially downsizing to a 10'x12' room down the road. That's my comfort sizes.

(52 turnouts)

[basementcalling]

From my experiences, several of which are failed layouts, I think it's about density of how much you pack in per square foot that is problematic, not sheer size.

[wm3798]

Crew Lounge?

[PAL_Houston]

Aisles wider than 2 feet.

[Loren Perry]

My bedroom-size layout is about 200 square feet (14 by 14.5 feet) with a double track main line in an around-the-walls setup with a center peninsula. A typical freight train can make the entire trip at scale speed (without stopping) in about five minutes or so. Not being operations oriented (I'm mostly a scale modeler at heart), switching is limited to about a half-dozen industries in all, plus large passenger and freight yards and a fully equipped engine terminal with roundhouse and turntable. I have no nearby model railroad neighbors so I usually run alone or demonstrate the system for visitors. The entire layout is detailed and fully scenicked to a relatively high degree - no bare plywood or styrofoam to be seen anywhere.

If the layout was much larger, I'd probably be worn out cleaning and dusting it, and making general repairs. And for that matter, I'd probably still be staring at a lot of plywood and styrofoam. A room-size layout has turned out to be just right for me considering I have to run my business, pay attention to my wife, run errands, do household repairs, and the like.

As it is now, I can completely clean all the track in an hour or so. It's primarily a railfan's layout where one can view the action from a number of vantage points. There's a huge amount of eye-candy to keep an appreciative viewer entertained including complete lighting for after dark operations. Also contributing to the fun is an elaborate under-the-layout sound system that provides a steady stream of ambient sound effects for city scenes, industrial areas, and countryside.

I get my satisfaction these days from running a wide variety of trains and building/detailing/painting locomotives and cars and related pieces.

[OldEastRR]

Cleaning the track is a big consideration for me. Which is why I don't like hidden track, or miles and miles of rail. Also, eventually something will go wrong with the rail connections or a turnout somewhere -- the less of each lessens the frequency of that happening.

[Kentuckian]

One way John Armstrong measured the size of a layout was the number of switches.  Whether you buy or build them the initial investment is relatively high, and then they have to be maintained.  I would be curious to know how many switches are on your layout?  My N scale HCD layout has an even dozen.  This is something I am struggling with as I plan the layout that will fill a roughly 15'x10' space.

[OldEastRR]

On my under-construction 11'x7.5' layout I have 9 or 10 mainline switches (including spurs off the main), two mainline crossings, and 2 separate switching areas with 6 switches each. The industrial area has all Peco switches, the town area has 2 peco of 6 total, and the mainline switches are mostly ME.
I have a double track line leading off my layout that heads for a 2'x8' shelf area, but I haven't decided on what will go there: staging, passenger station, industrial area/freight yard, or yard/engine terminal. Or even if I'll use that space.

[mark dance]

One way John Armstrong measured the size of a layout was the number of switches.  Whether you buy or build them the initial investment is relatively high, and then they have to be maintained.  I would be curious to know how many switches are on your layout?  My N scale HCD layout has an even dozen.  This is something I am struggling with as I plan the layout that will fill a roughly 15'x10' space.

The C&W has between 210 and 220 turnouts.  All are code 55 Peco Electrofrog.  1/3rd are Tortoise thrown and 2/3rds are hand thrown using the Peco spring mechanism. 

I spend maybe 6 hours per year total on turnout maintenance.  And it has been going down in recent years.  I read somewhere that layout owners should leave an hour per year per turnout for maintenance as a rule of thumb.  I'd just like to dispute that based on my experience with the Pecos.  Should you wish to entertain a larger layout, don't let the worry of turnout maintenance dissuade you from it...again at least with Pecos.

md

[VirginaCSX]

I have a 14 x 12 walk-in layout.  It will always be under construction so I don't ever expect to finish it.  But it is operational and in a typical two hour operating session it keeps 4-6 operators busy.  It takes less than a hour to clean the track.

[mmagliaro]

For me, once the layout gets big enough to allow for gentle enough curves and grades for longer steam locos, cleaning and maintenance are the driving factors.

All the track on my
small 9x12 room layout can be cleaned in about 30 minutes.   

I'd say my "comfortable sized" ideal, therefore, is something where I can completely clean all the track and brush off and vacuum the whole thing in an hour or less.    Due to work or family or other
normal life activities, there will be times when you can't play with the trains for
a few weeks.  When you can get back to them, if you need more than an hour to clean the layout
up and get it going, that spells trouble.  I don't want to be discouraged from using the trains and having fun with them because of some big cleaning chore. 

[MVW]

The C&W has between 210 and 220 turnouts.  All are code 55 Peco Electrofrog.  1/3rd are Tortoise thrown and 2/3rds are hand thrown using the Peco spring mechanism. 

I spend maybe 6 hours per year total on turnout maintenance.  And it has been going down in recent years.  I read somewhere that layout owners should leave an hour per year per turnout for maintenance as a rule of thumb.  I'd just like to dispute that based on my experience with the Pecos.  Should you wish to entertain a larger layout, don't let the worry of turnout maintenance dissuade you from it...again at least with Pecos.

md

Mark, I think you answered this somewhere else, but I don't remember where. Anyway, what I'm wondering is, do you use the Electrofrogs straight out of the box, or are you doing any additional wiring or modification?

I just started a new layout using Pecos for the first time, and I'm likin' 'em so far. But I'm just running power to the points end, and using plastic rail joiners on the frog. No jumpers or frog-juicers.

Jim