Bachmann 2-8-4 Berkshire/Kanawha in stock at M.B. Klein

[Mark5]

Sucks that these don't creep "out of the box" like the EM1s.

Been on the fence about getting one of these ...

[jdcolombo]

OK - so I did the rear driver wheel adjustment trick and it worked.  What I did was just take a pair of tweezers, ran them through a couple of the spokes and twisted, and the wheel moved a bit.  First time I moved it the wrong direction, and hitch got worse.  Then I moved it in the opposite direction, and hitch is gone.  Both of my Berks will now creep satisfactorily, although I still think the Tsunami's motor control circuits could be better.   But the overall smoothness is now at least "good" if not "spectacular" (which is where I'd rate the EM-1; this isn't an EM-1, folks, so adjust your expectations accordingly).   My next project is getting rid of the terrible speaker and trying to put something decent speaker-wise in the tender.   I think that with that change and some work on the speed table, these will turn out to be very good engines.

I'm still impressed with the pulling power.  25 weighted cars and a caboose before one gives up the ghost on my flat layout; the other will do 30.  Both may improve with running, but I can't complain - the LL Berks pulled six out of the box!

Anyway, those of you with hitches should try Chris's quartering solution.  Worked for me.

John C.

[John]

this is why I don't do steam

[Kisatchie]

this is why I don't do steam

You got that right! I'd never buy a steam loco.


Hmm... could that be
because you model 1971,
Kiz...?

[Chris333]

So aside from the mechanical issues. I have no idea why these ship with the speed step all screwed up. For a DC guy with a DC layout and a DC pack I have no way to change the decoder settings. Also it sounds like this would help the DCC people as well.

[jdcolombo]

You got that right! I'd never buy a steam loco.

Oh come on, guys.  Where is your sense of adventure?

No question that diesels are simpler and more reliable.   And there is also no question what draws the crowds at a public show: it's the steamers every time.   Our club just finished a two-day show, and it's hard to describe how eyes light up (both for kids and parents) when we've got the FEF with it's passenger consist on one track; a Big Boy, Challenger or EM-1 pulling a 50-car reefer train on another track, and a ten-wheeler on the N-Trak branch line pulling a small "local."   

And it wouldn't matter for me anyway, because if you want to model the NKP at the height of it's existence, it's 1956-57, with Berks on the mainline next to GP9's and RS11's. 

John C.

[jdcolombo]

So aside from the mechanical issues. I have no idea why these ship with the speed step all screwed up. For a DC guy with a DC layout and a DC pack I have no way to change the decoder settings. Also it sounds like this would help the DCC people as well.

I have yet to find a DCC decoder that did well with analog DC, despite the "dual mode" hype.  I think this is just the nature of the beast.   If you are DC only, I'd strongly recommend pulling the Tsunami out of this loco and fashioning some sort of jumper to power the motor directly from the track pickup.   You could also make a small resistor/diode circuit to run the front and rear lights off of track power.  Why Bachmann doesn't supply such a jumper board with the engine is a mystery to me.  The decoder already plugs in to the base board.  It couldn't cost more than a dollar to do this.  Market opportunity for someone?

John C.

[sizemore]

Could be wrong but I don't think its so much the speed curve. The reason they take a lot of juice is probably because of the power needed to juice the decoder and make sound. IIRC these have a amplifier too.

Jdcolombo could you share your decoder tweaks with maybe a CV list?

The S.

[jdcolombo]

Could be wrong but I don't think its so much the speed curve. The reason they take a lot of juice is probably because of the power needed to juice the decoder and make sound. IIRC these have a amplifier too.

Jdcolombo could you share your decoder tweaks with maybe a CV list?

The S.

After correcting the "hitch" with the "adjust the quartering of the rear drivers" tip, I ended up with the following:

CV 209 = 30
CV 210 = 150
CV 212 = 180
CV 213 = 1
CV 214 = 4

These are somewhat different values than I had before I did the quartering trick (see my separate thread on this).

A good source of info on how to adjust the TSU's BEMF parameters is:

https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home/decoders/decoder-motor-tuning/soundtraxx

Remember to set CV's 3 and 4 to zero when tuning BEMF.  I started with CV's 213 and 214 to smooth out the running at speed steps 1 and 2 as much as possible, then adjusted 209/210/212 to get slowest slow speed I could without stalling and good mid-level throttle response.   

John C.

[mmagliaro]

Okay... I have to say something.

This prying on the drivers down near the axle with an Xacto blade, and spinning the drivers around
with your fingers, and the tweezers through the spokes to twist the driver a little to adjust the quartering...

1. I admit it.  I have used all these tricks in my life ( but I earnestly avoid them ).
2. You are playing with fire.

Here's the thing.
If you were able to move the driver on the axle just by gripping one side and pushing
the opposite side with your thumb, that means the drivers are not really tight enough.  And now they
are even looser (since you moved them). 

The fact that you could turn one with tweezers poked through the spokes means
they are really not tight enough.

I have done these exact tricks on Trix K4's which have notoriously slippery axle hole grip on their drivers.
Once they are set, if you don't do something else to keep them there, they are going to move around
and that thing is going to go out of quarter.  Maybe not today.  Maybe not tomorrow.  But
soon and for the rest of your life (queue the Humphrey Bogart clip).

Get thee to a bottle of Loctite or some thin ACC and get it on that axle end before that driver
slips. 
With luck, you can put it on the axle end and it will wick down into the joint between the axle and
the wheel (and not go anywhere else and jam up the axle).   Loctite Green (IC Loc Green from Bob Smith
Industries is good for this).

Like I said, I have experience with the thumb/tweezer/Xacto methods.  They do work, but
it's a risky proposition.

Good luck, folks.   

[Chris333]

I did mention ACC on the axle end. 

I don't have a gear puller that would work on a large driver and I was trying to avoid tearing the whole thing down 5 min after I opened the box.

Oh btw this loco does have little slots in the frame for the bearing ears to fit into. Don't think Bachmann has done that before.

[mmagliaro]

I did mention ACC on the axle end. 

....

Oh, good!  Sorry I missed that, Chris.     My apologies if I was a little strong there, but people are starting
to twist and pry, and I am fearing trouble.... (and no, I don't  own one of these).

[peteski]

(and no, I don't  own one of these).

But (once it changes hands) there is a good chance that you will be the one repairing one of those "fixed" beauties in the future. 

[mmagliaro]

But (once it changes hands) there is a good chance that you will be the one repairing one of those "fixed" beauties in the future. 

Well.... I wasn't going to come out and say that, but...   

Seriously, I am just more concerned that folks will get the impression that they can just twist and
pry on steam loco drivers and that is a dicey proposition.  You really need to be careful, and the risk
of wrecking the driver is pretty significant.

[mmagliaro]

OK - so I did the rear driver wheel adjustment trick and it worked.  What I did was just take a pair of tweezers, ran them through a couple of the spokes and twisted, and the wheel moved a bit.  First time I moved it the wrong direction, and hitch got worse.  Then I moved it in the opposite direction, and hitch is gone.  Both of my Berks will now creep satisfactorily, although I still think the Tsunami's motor control circuits could be better.   But the overall smoothness is now at least "good" if not "spectacular" (which is where I'd rate the EM-1; this isn't an EM-1, folks, so adjust your expectations accordingly).   My next project is getting rid of the terrible speaker and trying to put something decent speaker-wise in the tender.   I think that with that change and some work on the speed table, these will turn out to be very good engines.

I'm still impressed with the pulling power.  25 weighted cars and a caboose before one gives up the ghost on my flat layout; the other will do 30.  Both may improve with running, but I can't complain - the LL Berks pulled six out of the box!

Anyway, those of you with hitches should try Chris's quartering solution.  Worked for me.

John C.

sizemore mentioned that on his, the traction tire driver was not actually touching the rails, so that without rods on the engine, it would hardly move itself (because the two center geared drivers would be the only ones that
turn, and one of them isn't touching the rails... the most important one!).

Anyway, if you were to check that, and possibly add a bit of masking tape under the bearing
on #3 to get that rubber tire on to the rails, you might find that it pulls a lot more, even though 25
ain't bad. 

The LL engine was terribly anemic, true. 
But a Berkshire really ought to be able to pull a lot more than 25 cars on flat track.