"Betterment" cars

[Puddington]

With the interest in the MTL/Lowell Smith sealed window observation car it is obvious (well; obvious to me, maybe not to other more realistic modellers) that there would be a significant appeal to "betterment" heavyweights. Looking at the MTL cars I am thinking that changing their existing HW cars to a betterment side might just be a matter of a few new mould slides and roof.

Were betterment cars available there would be numerous targets that come to mind. 10 compartment sleepers, 8-1-2's, 10-1-2's and many others were significant targets for the sealed window upgrades and a/c upgrades.

MTL is busy making passenger modellers (and head end nuts) very, very happy; I hope that they are looking down the line at some sealed window version of their cars... what say ya Joe?

[Sokramiketes]

There are any number of cars that would be perfect candidates for new sides in their line, not the least of which are the troop sleeper and the RPO.  However, the only time MTL has done new sides is so they can more easily print large graphics on the cars... not new proto sides. 

While a great idea, and even promised at the time of the RPO and troop car releases, we have yet to see it and it doesn't seem to be a priority.

[Bob Bufkin]

Betterment cars - now your talking.  Lots of these laste up to the Amtrak era. 

[John]

whats a "betterment" car?

[John]

whats a "betterment" car?

Never mind .. GOOGLE is my friend 

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/classic/CARdwgs9.html

[pjm20]

Nope. We need more Pullman plans produced to but the sides on first!  Maybe a 8-1-2 or a Solarinum. More Pullman cars please!

[John]

Nope. We need more Pullman plans produced to but the sides on first!  Maybe a 8-1-2 or a Solarinum. More Pullman cars please!

there is a guy on shapeways thats doing just that ..

http://www.shapeways.com/model/2934972/pullman-8-1-2-sleeping-car-plan-3979-ice-a-c-1.html?li=more-from-shop&materialId=61

[pjm20]

I just need a $5000 SLA Printer and I would have them all! For me, Shapeways doesn't cut it on most things because of the printing lines. Giant passenger cars do not cut it.

[jmlaboda - RIP]

Never mind .. GOOGLE is my friend 

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/classic/CARdwgs9.html

The problem with the explanation there is that it is not accurate.  Betterment cars, which started appearing on certain lines' sleepers in the mid-30s, was nothing more than a rounded roof, sometimes with tapered ends and skirting below the car sides and often some sort of "new" bedroom accommodations such as Single or Double Bedrooms... it did not have anything to do with the windows, which remained the sliding sash type.  Not very numerous by any means and not applied to a lot of car types, mostly where a streamlined appearance was wanted on the cheap (it did not cost all that much to do these mods) in an effort to meet competition on adjacent lines.

The MT business car model is a Modernized car not a Betterment car.  The difference with a Modernized car was the addition of sealed windows, either as complete replacements of the original window framing, newly fashioned sides with new sealed window openings or inserts within the original sash window, which was altered so it could not be opened as it use to do.  These sealed windows were typically called thermopane windows which sandwiched two panes of glass within the new window mount.  These windows are easily spotted by the rounded corners.

Operations that received Betterment cars include the Baltimore & Ohio, Burlington Route (along with subsidiaries Colorado & Southern and Fort Worth & Denver), Gulf Mobile & Ohio, Kansas City Southern, New York Central (three observation cars with rounded ends, one of which retained its clerestory roof) and Pennsylvania.

Here are a couple links to Betterment cars...

CB&Q 665 ex-Denver Tower Plan 4090E 8 Section - 3 Double Bedroom - 1 Drawing Room, converted to coach.
C&S Zephyr Tower Plan 4090C 8 Section - 3 Double Bedroom - 1 Drawing Room.
FW&D Lariat Range Plan 3973D 10 Section - 1 Drawing Room - 1 Compartment.
KCS Mena Plan 4078B 10 Section - 3 Double Bedroom.
KCS Siloam Springs Plan 4078B 10 Section - 3 Double Bedroom.
NYC 52 bar lounge - parlor observation.
NYC 56 buffet lounge observation, note clerestory roof.
PRR 5192 baggage - coach.

There were modernized sleeper cars just as there are plenty of examples of other car types that were modernized but it was the Canadian National and Canadian Pacific that built most.  While a few sleepers were modernized in the states both major Canadian roads produced some beautiful modernized sleepers in fairly large numbers to help spread the streamlined appearance over more trains.  Here are a couple examples of what was done...

B&O 7321 Lantern Tower Plan 4090G 8 Sec - 1 DR - 3 DBR.
B&O 7384 Loch Lomond Plan 3585N 10 Sec - 1 DR - 2 Comp.
CN 1041 Metis 7 Comp - lounge open-platform observation.
CN 1069 Fort William 4 Compartment - 1 Drawing Room - Buffet - lounge flat end observation.
CN 1635 Renfrew 12 Section - 1 Drawing Room.
CN 1804 Melville 8 Section - 1 Drawing Room - 2 Compartment.
CP Redvers 8 Section - 1 Drawing Room - 2 Compartment, note clerestory roof.

[thomasjmdavis]

Let's not forget modernized HW coaches ala CN and ACL- which at first glance might be taken for streamlined cars until you see the underframe with HW trucks, and the 14' roof that is not quite streamline contour.  Or my personal favorites- the L&N cars with wide sealed picture windows, and clerestory roof.  But perhaps these are new adventures for Skytop, M&R and others, since I kinda doubt any of them will sell at the sort of level that MT tooling would require to break even.

But everybody, please have mercy on those of us in the middle class with kids in college.  I think I am currently on the hook for 9 baggage cars (8 MT and 1 WoT), a mail-baggage or 2, 6-1-4 sides whenever Roberto gets to them, an upcoming release of F units, another upcoming release of F units (if they get enough orders), some CMT vehicles whenever they arrive, flatcars and a 10-5, oh, and a Wabash 1601, and.... and I need about 12 more sections of flex track and a few more turnouts.

So, if you could hold off on any more really good news for a few months, it would be appreciated.

Tom D

[John]

thanks Jerry .. much info ..

[thomasjmdavis]

Noting that it was Puddington who started the thread...

Seriously, CN or GTW rebuilt heavyweights to go with the 1954 era CN prototypes would be great.  I would certainly be a customer for a couple, if I don't beat you to it and kitbash some. 

[Puddington]

I've always used "betterment" as a term for both Jerry; thanks for the clarification.

[sirenwerks]

I'd love to see a N&W or B&O-style modernized, sealed window coach.

[Lemosteam]

Jerry, how many books have you written?  I find your knowledge of such things very fascinating. Are thes bits on your site?