Kato FEF review

[lashedup]

Thanks for the review Victor.

Does it appear that the elephant ears could be removed?

[victor miranda]

a set of nippers will do the job....
I am not sure that is what you ask...

Kato has a knack for pressing parts together and I am sure the ears are removable...
the question is how does it look once the deed is done?

I'll see  tonight...

[victor miranda]

Victor - thanks for taking your time to post that information for all of our use.

Carl

Carl, you are welcome.

I am not at all sure why I peel open my model locos.
I suppose it is because I know at some point I'll have to get in there to clean and lube.

in this case... it was very easy.

victor

 

[woodone]

WOW!! There are lot of parts and pieces to this guy.
Hope you figure out how to open up the tender.
I will sure be wanting to get inside to install a sound decoder with a speaker.
Thanks for the photos of the tear down.
woodone

[peteski]

I am not at all sure why I peel open my model locos.
I suppose it is because I know at some point I'll have to get in there to clean and lube.

I can relate to this. I have the insatiable need to open things up.  But I know exactly why I do it: In my case it is because I'm very curious how they are constructed and how they work.  Disassembling models is one of my top most enjoyable aspects of this hobby.

[OldEastRR]

Carl, you are welcome.

I am not at all sure why I peel open my model locos.
I suppose it is because I know at some point I'll have to get in there to clean and lube.

in this case... it was very easy.

victor

You can't say the Japanese don't learn from their mistakes. Anybody who tried to take apart KATO's first US locos (especially the F3!) will know they've come a long way from that kind of assembly.

[peteski]

You can't say the Japanese don't learn from their mistakes. Anybody who tried to take apart KATO's first US locos (especially the F3!) will know they've come a long way from that kind of assembly.

I'm trying to recall the original Kato F3 disassembly and the only awkward part of the process I seem to recall was that the removal of the front coupler was a bit of a pain.  Other than that, it was a standard split-frame chassis.

[up1950s]

I am glad Kato listened to the GS-4 complaints and applied new engineering and innovations to the FEF . Could become a new gold standard which would spawn more steam from them at a reduced design cost by just applying this new technology . I wish Kato all the luck with this , When mine comes in a day or two I plan to crack open a pre Russian Pabst to celebrate this event . Thanks Kato .

[flight2000]

You can't say the Japanese don't learn from their mistakes. Anybody who tried to take apart KATO's first US locos (especially the F3!) will know they've come a long way from that kind of assembly.

Absolutely, even more recent examples where they messed with a design and then went back to reconfigure.  The first SD80MAC's and AC4400's provided a sanity check with removing and reinstalling those cab windows.  I've broken or scratched way to many windows while wrestling with those engines.

Awesome review Victor.  I bought a full set based on your review...thanks!!!   

Cheers,
Brian 

[Chris333]

Just noticed the flywheels are larger dia. than the motor... finally!  Although it is probably just a case of a smaller motor instead of larger flywheels.

[DeltaBravo]

Victor, thanks for sharing. I don't run UP, but I am considering some visiting power 

[peteski]

Just noticed the flywheels are larger dia. than the motor... finally!  Although it is probably just a case of a smaller motor instead of larger flywheels.

Yup!

On a related note, some recent Fleischmann N scale models of European steam use a large diameter but short (sort of like a pancake) motor in the cab with a thin but large diameter flywheel (which pretty much fills the cab.  Since it is the diameter (more than a total mass) of the flywheel which is important in flywheel design, Fleischmann is onto something there.

[peteski]

I got the spare parts from Kato before my FEF arrived!

Here are  some photos of the innards of the motor (I hope that Victor doesn't mind).

I bought the FEF motor along with the motor for Kato HO P42 with its revolutionary truck-mounted motors.  While there is a slight difference in the rear cover plate, the motors appear to be identical and interchangeable.  Both have 40 ohm internal resistance.


FEF_motor01.jpg


FEF_motor02.jpg


FEF_motor03.jpg

As Victor suspected, the brushes are rather fragile. Adding more substantial carbon rush material might not be easy. It is a 5-pole 5-windings (?) motor.


FEF_motor04.jpg


FEF_motor05.jpg

The commutator appears to be made from silver (superb conductivity and low friction).

FEF_motor06.jpg

Here is the other end of the rotor basket.

FEF_motor07.jpg

And the rotor next to the motor body.

FEF_motor08.jpg

Victor, since you like to run longevity tests, if you want, I would like to donate this motor to you so you could see how many hours it will last before something (brushes?) give out.  PM me your address and I'll send it to you.

For couple more observations, the driver axles in FEF are truly faceted (just like in the Kato Mikado). Which is odd as the revised (and very similar) GS-4 drivers have round knurled axles.  I'm really puzzled as to why Kato just didn't use the faceted axles in both the FEF and revised GS-4 drivers.

The FEF tender trucks are very well thought out.  The front truck has the low-friction axle-cup bearings for electric pickup and the rear "truck" of the 5-axle set uses inside bearing/pickup similar to what was used on the Kato Amfleet cars.  Fairly low friction and reliable.  I am very impressed.  I also like the new wheel profile Kato has been using for a while now: the thread is narrower and flanges are shallower. The wheel face profile is also well done (looks more like the real wheels rather than the toy-train wheel profile used in the past).


FEF_tender_truck01.jpg

[victor miranda]

pretty photos Peteski!

this is a review thread... photos and comments are what make it work.
Coreless motor innerds are eye candy to me.

Is the one you opened from the FEF or the p-42?
can you tell what kind of magnet installed?
my slot car magnets give me a range and I can't decide
where the Kato motor fits in the scale.


I have to state I was not planning a longevity run.

I was thinking that once I saw the construction of the brushes
I would make a guess about the lifetime.

   they look like 700 hour brushes to me.
(similar to the b-mann 2-6-0 and 4-6-0)
I have not been given and indication that many care
how long the motor brushes will live in service.

the advice I have is get a spare motor and when you have
electrical problems, swap the motor first.

one of the things I had decided to look into was
alternatives to the kato motor, since I think it expensive.

If it has high quality magnets
it may well be worth all that Kato charges.
or it may have unusual dimensions and there is no helicopter equivalent.

We can be reasonably sure replacement motors will be needed.
What we don't know is how easily (availability and price.)
Kato has been pretty good about repair parts
and if they keep using the coreless type motors
we can be confident motors will be around.

my crystal ball lacks clarity on that point....

victor
edited to fix Kato's name

[mmagliaro]

Here's an old Atlas forum thread that Peteski did showing photos of the guts of a Faulhaber.
http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=63598&whichpage=1

(and a mighty handy thread it is).   I went searching to compare the insides to this Kato motor (rather than
go take one of my already-disassembled motors out of a drawer and photograph it... out of pure laziness, I admit).

The Faulhaber is clearly made with a bit more robustness and precision, looking at the photos, but I am not
sure that any of the improvements would have that dramatic of an effect on the motor life.   

Victor, you think 700 hours?   That's a lot of hours.  I bet most people never even an engine for that many hours unless
they are using it at a club or train show.