ATSF diesel switchers on branch line freights?

[Albert in N]

I have two Kato NW2s that run and look great.   One is CB&Q, the other Santa Fe.  In the early 1970s here in Texas, I often saw Burlington running local freights with caboose on rear being pulled by one or two diesel switchers.  On their light branch lines (such as south from Wichita Falls to Spur and to Abilene) switchers were the normal locomotives.  However, Santa Fe seemed to use older road locomotives (F units and GP7s).  Does anyone know of Santa Fe running switch engines on local freights with a caboose?   For some reason (probably short trains), I like light branch lines.  Is it prototypical to run my Kato Santa Fe NW2 with a caboose on the end of a short string of freight cars?   

[ArtinCA]

I don't see why not. SP sent an SW-1500 up the main one time to switch out some local industries where I grew up. Engine, 3 cars and a caboose.

[randgust]

For me its sort of a 'yes and no' answer.   Remember that ATSF had a lot of yard power, but EMD was the minority; lots of Baldwin, FM and Alco switchers in the 1000-hp flavor, and those lasted up until the 70's.  They only owned 15 NW2's and one left active by 1975.   They had 80+ S1 and S2 switchers, another 50 or so FM's.

There's a lot of shots of Alco switchers doing way freights in the terminal areas like Los Angeles, San Francisco (Richmond), etc.  FM's seemed rather common around Argentine.   EMD's seemed to rule Texas.    McMillan 'does' show that the last NW2 was based in Cleburne.  That was an EMD base so you saw the shakier units based there.  GP7's without dynamics were very typical in Texas as well.

Also depends on the era.   Once the CF7 program got going, those dominated Texas, along with the F-units, GP's.   McMillan has some great shots of GP's down on the Presidio branch, and nothing was longer or shakier than that.

So if it was going to be anywhere in the system that you'd have an old, shaky NW2 running a branch or a way freight, Texas would be it, but I can't say as I can back up that comment with any pictures.   I would recommend "Santa Fe Trackside" by Stagner if you like color shots of power all over the system and a hefty helping of zebra stripe units.

But I also have to admit I've got worse violations than that on my own layout.   I can find no evidence that Winslow ever hosted an SW8, I've got one.  I can also pretty much prove that CF7's, which didn't have dynamic brakes, went through Arizona to California and never looked back, but I've got several.  I have an F7 MU'd with an SD24, and I now know that couldn't even happen, despite the fact I have a photo - one of them was under tow as the MU was incompatible.   So power on with your NW2!

[dnhouston]

Here's an NW2 working a local freight in Oklahoma

[Albert in N]

Thanks guys!  Santa Fe probably would have run the Cleburne NW2 on a way freight from there to Cresson, TX.  Also, the FMs were interesting in that there were several of them in Amarillo during the early 1970s.  I need to get my ancient MiniTrix FM switcher out and run it (it has the black and white zebra stripe ATSF colors).   

[wazzou]

Here's an NW2 working a local freight in Oklahoma

Are you sure that's not in yard service?  I don't know either way, but that would be my guess.

[tappertrainman]

I feel your pain, here in the San Diego where I'm modeling, it was probably CF7's or early Geeps, all of which are difficult to find in N scale for current models.  I think when I get serious about them I'll be looking for lightly used models from years ago.

James

[randgust]

Wow, where is that in Oklahoma...?

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I am so proud of the forum today: nobody has said "it's your railroad, do what you want". I love it.

[dnhouston]

Old photo from the SE side of Oklahoma City.  Doesn't look like that anymore. 

[randgust]

Yeah, from what I can see - where ATSF and the Rock had to have crossed is pretty much wiped out with the I-40 interchange and expressway now.   

That's still really interesting.   I wouldn't have thought NW2's would have been there; and yeah, that's south of the station area and well away from the yard... so ... while on the 'main', still a local of some kind. 

I never got to see the Rock firsthand until 1980, at Blue Island.   Pretty much like first meeting somebody at their funeral.

[drgw0579]

it's your railroad, do what you want..  Remember that end cab switchers don't have "facilities".  Burlington and subsidiaries didn't seem to mind, but maybe that was because their lines *seemed* to be in poorer condition than Santa Fe's and needed lighter locomotives.

Consult the McMillian books!  Looking at the Santa Fe Motive Power book you don't see many photos of switchers a long way from home.

ATSF isn't my primary interest, but I went to college in Texas during the 70's and made many visits to relatives in that part of the country.  That was the era of the CF7's on branches.  At the beginning of the decade, you would see F7's, but towards the end of the decade, you started to see more GP7s and even GP20's on branches. 

That's not to say it never happened, so it's your railroad, do what you want.

Bill Kepner

[nkalanaga]

Randgust:  You said "I have an F7 MU'd with an SD24, and I now know that couldn't even happen, despite the fact I have a photo - one of them was under tow as the MU was incompatible."

Was this something unique to the Santa Fe?  Considering the variety of locos the BN MUed to F7s (and F3/9s) it seems a little surprising.  I even have a photo of an AB-C415-BA set, and can't imagine why they would do that, as it would be easier to put the Alco on one end.

[randgust]

At one point or another EMD changed the pin systems on the MU cables.    You'd see CF7's, GP-7,9,and all manner of F's MU'd together.    From about the GP20 on, it was another scheme, so there was an arbitrary dividing line in there.   You may not have realized it, but if you look at photos, it's really evident that there was a literal 'generation gap' on ATSF for MU schemes.

Many railroads redid the MU-pinning on the older units so that they were completely compatible with newer units.   My mechanical sources tell me that ATSF did not.  The basic problem is the evolution of the 21-pin MU to the 27-pin MU and the movement of the sanders from air MU hoses to electrical pins, along with the evolution of the 6L brake to the 24 and 26L, weird stuff happens when you mix those as well.   You could come up with your own schemes as well on how to make adapters and assign leftover MU pins, which is how certain railroads older identical units wouldn't MU with the same model later on.

The photo that intrigued me was an ABBA set of F9's on a Phoenix-Winslow train in "Railroads of Arizona" by Myrick;, on the rear of the F9's is an SD24.   There are also several shots of SD24's only, and F9's only, but that's the only mix shot I've seen.   I concluded they were obviously MU'd and my mechanical guys have said 'no way, not on ATSF'.

On EL for example, it was a free-for-all, my favorite shot is an F3B MU'd (and running) with an SD45-2 in 1975.   If you stare at a few hundred ATSF shots, you'll finally realize....huh.... nothing like that here.

[nkalanaga]

Thank you!  The GN and NP must have redone theirs, because they both ran Fs and early GPs with the latest power, and the BN continued the practice.  The GN in the Big Sky Blue era liked to run passenger trains with an SDP40/45 and one or more Fs.  Not the best LOOKING passenger power, but it worked, and must have had some advantage for them.