Author Topic: Kato ES44AC new schemes: CN and CP  (Read 2294 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Scottl

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4260
  • Respect: +559
Kato ES44AC new schemes: CN and CP
« on: August 27, 2014, 05:07:15 PM »
0
No one seems to have mentioned this, but Kato is shipping CN and CP AC units with "additional warning labels and printing" as part of the paint schemes. 

http://www.katousa.com/N/ES44AC/index.html

Can't have too many toasters- the CN unit is especially welcome as these have become quite common in the past year.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 11:01:13 AM by GaryHinshaw »

Leggy

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 649
  • Respect: +33
Re: Kato ES44AC new schemes: CN and CP
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2014, 05:32:18 PM »
0
Kato finally using the artwork that the USA guys made originally for the ES44AC  :facepalm: Now if they'd just use the wide handrails for the CSX units they'd really have something....

flight2000

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 726
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +81
Re: Kato ES44AC new schemes: CN and CP
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2014, 02:19:13 AM »
0
Nice.  Has anyone seen these navigate their way through SoCal in the past few years with either BNSF or UP?

Cheers,
Brian
I've never met a covered hopper I didn't like.... :)

Leggy

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 649
  • Respect: +33
Re: Kato ES44AC new schemes: CN and CP
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2014, 02:25:27 AM »
0
Seems KCS, NS, CSX, CP and Ferromex ES44ACs have all ended up down in Cali, same with NS, CSX and CN ES44DCs. BNSF also has those CITIRAIL leasers so between FVM and Kato they're pretty well covered.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 02:37:12 AM by Leggy »

GaryHinshaw

  • Global Moderator
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 6089
  • Respect: +1584
Re: Kato ES44AC new schemes: CN and CP
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2014, 04:40:58 AM »
0
Good to see these.

Nice.  Has anyone seen these navigate their way through SoCal in the past few years with either BNSF or UP?

Cheers,
Brian

The CP units for sure.  I haven't encountered a CN GEVO in SoCal, but it has to be possible.  In researching these units a bit, I was very surprised to find out how small the CN and CP fleets really are: CN has about 250 GEVO's in house or on order; CP has 291.  In contrast, UP has ~1000 and BNSF has almost 2400 (now outnumbering their ubiquitous fleet of 1800 Dash-9's).
 

Scottl

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4260
  • Respect: +559
Re: Kato ES44AC new schemes: CN and CP
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2014, 08:59:34 AM »
0
The CN AC units are all recent acquisitions, within about a year, and most were captive on coal trains in western Canada for some time.  Now I see them regularly on all sorts of trains across the network and oftent see pictures of them on NS in the deep south.

For whatever reason, CN has opted to buy a lot of used power, much of it of UP and BNSF (and predecessor) origin.   CN also bought a lot of new SD70M-2 units because these were made at GMD/EMD in London and CN has little topography to justify AC traction.  After Caterpillar bought GMD out and closed the factory, CN stopped buying those units, and I have the sense that it was around that time the first ES44AC units were ordered.   

As a point of modelling interest, the ES units are pretty much the first "off the shelf" CN units.  For decades prior to that, most diesel units were different (cabs and/or cowls) and required substantial kitbashing.  IM produced a CN cab SD-40 and I hear word that Fox Valley is going to do the SD70M-2 units, so things have improved!

Leggy

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 649
  • Respect: +33
Re: Kato ES44AC new schemes: CN and CP
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2014, 09:14:44 AM »
0
2010 was the last CN SD70M-2, 2012 iirc was when the ES44ACs started showing up. Not 100% on dates but that's what first came to mind. I think the last few ES44DCs got the normal GE cab and all ES44ACs have had it, I do miss the porkchop cab as even Rio Tinto in the Pilbara has gone to the normal cab on their last order of ES44DCis and first lot of ES44ACis.

Scottl

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4260
  • Respect: +559
Re: Kato ES44AC new schemes: CN and CP
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2014, 09:20:25 AM »
0
I guess what I think of as a year is more like two, LOL.  I agree, the porkchop cab really looked great.  I suppose they have succumbed to the standard cab for some cost reason.

lock4244

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3475
  • Ontario - tax, tax, tax, tax, tax, tax, tax, tax
  • Respect: +88
    • My train pics
Re: Kato ES44AC new schemes: CN and CP
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2014, 09:30:23 AM »
0
2010 was the last CN SD70M-2, 2012 iirc was when the ES44ACs started showing up. Not 100% on dates but that's what first came to mind. I think the last few ES44DCs got the normal GE cab and all ES44ACs have had it, I do miss the porkchop cab as even Rio Tinto in the Pilbara has gone to the normal cab on their last order of ES44DCis and first lot of ES44ACis.

CN 2290 and up have the standard GE windsheild.
Welcome to Ontario... we've got a tax for that.
My train pics:
http://tinyurl.com/62uk24
More here:
http://www.railpictures.ca/author/lock4244

lock4244

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3475
  • Ontario - tax, tax, tax, tax, tax, tax, tax, tax
  • Respect: +88
    • My train pics
Re: Kato ES44AC new schemes: CN and CP
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2014, 09:35:59 AM »
0
Seems KCS, NS, CSX, CP and Ferromex ES44ACs have all ended up down in Cali, same with NS, CSX and CN ES44DCs. BNSF also has those CITIRAIL leasers so between FVM and Kato they're pretty well covered.

CP had leased about 100 of their AC4400's and GEVO's to BNSF starting back in the winter of 2013/14. A number have been returned as new GE's come online at BNSF, but there are still 50/60 CP still on lease. I guess BNSF was paying good money for them, because CP made themselves rather power short as part of the deal and wound up leasing a good number of UP GEVO's in their stead! It has also seen the mostly stored CP and SOO SD60/60M's return to service, as well as kept the remaining SD40-2's busy (including reactivating units tied up).
Welcome to Ontario... we've got a tax for that.
My train pics:
http://tinyurl.com/62uk24
More here:
http://www.railpictures.ca/author/lock4244

lock4244

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3475
  • Ontario - tax, tax, tax, tax, tax, tax, tax, tax
  • Respect: +88
    • My train pics
Re: Kato ES44AC new schemes: CN and CP
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2014, 09:51:23 AM »
0
In researching these units a bit, I was very surprised to find out how small the CN and CP fleets really are: CN has about 250 GEVO's in house or on order; CP has 291.  In contrast, UP has ~1000 and BNSF has almost 2400 (now outnumbering their ubiquitous fleet of 1800 Dash-9's).

CN and CP do not move the volumes of traffic that BNSF or UP do, but another factor in fleet size is the inherent efficiency of their (CN & CP) networks compared to the US roads. By that I mean the Canadian roads are predominately linear, whereas the US systems include significant overlap/crisscrossing, which makes it difficult to be as efficient in motive power distribution.

From what I've seen on BNSF and UP operations in person, they make little effort to sweat the assets like CN has for years, and now CP is doing. CN will routinely run 12000' of stacks east out of Toronto to Montreal behind a pair of DC units (train 148), while the WB counterpart (149) will get three units, but this is a recent change and is largely to balance power as the crude oil trains running EB into Mtl get three units. The empty EB crude oil trains get one or two units, depending on many factors, but not the least of which is how much fill the empty train is planned to lift enroute (Belleville or Oshawa), so the extra unit is expedited back to Toronto on the stack train.

Anyways, it's a lot easier for the Cdn roads to manage their fleets, so they can be smaller, even relative to tonnage.
Welcome to Ontario... we've got a tax for that.
My train pics:
http://tinyurl.com/62uk24
More here:
http://www.railpictures.ca/author/lock4244

lock4244

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3475
  • Ontario - tax, tax, tax, tax, tax, tax, tax, tax
  • Respect: +88
    • My train pics
Re: Kato ES44AC new schemes: CN and CP
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2014, 10:05:21 AM »
0
The CN AC units are all recent acquisitions, within about a year, and most were captive on coal trains in western Canada for some time.  Now I see them regularly on all sorts of trains across the network and oftent see pictures of them on NS in the deep south.

For whatever reason, CN has opted to buy a lot of used power, much of it of UP and BNSF (and predecessor) origin.   CN also bought a lot of new SD70M-2 units because these were made at GMD/EMD in London and CN has little topography to justify AC traction.  After Caterpillar bought GMD out and closed the factory, CN stopped buying those units, and I have the sense that it was around that time the first ES44AC units were ordered.

The ES44AC's CN bought seem to operate into the east on grain and crude trains. I've shot a few pairs of them and never EB on anything but these unit trains. Unit grain being run to Quebec City in July and August is an unprecedented, but welcomed from a railfan's perspective, combination of crude getting preferential treatment and a bumper grain crop! They go back west on the next available WB.

CN had orders for both ES44AC and SD70ACe's on the books, but canceled the order with Caterpillar and shifted the number ordered to the GE order. Knowing GE, this was likely a cost related issue... they got a sweet deal. I find it difficult to believe it was due to problems with the SD70M-2's, as they've been no worse than the GEVO's. And if reliability was a concern, those 144 second hand -8's are junk!

Then they bought the four demo SD70ACe's. WTF?  :facepalm:
Welcome to Ontario... we've got a tax for that.
My train pics:
http://tinyurl.com/62uk24
More here:
http://www.railpictures.ca/author/lock4244

GaryHinshaw

  • Global Moderator
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 6089
  • Respect: +1584
Re: Kato ES44AC new schemes: CN and CP
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2014, 10:09:00 AM »
0
Good points Mike.  As a relatively new Canadian, I have to keep reminding myself that the population of Canada is less than that of California, and it's basically strung out in a line; the mountain geography is tamer too.

I'm often amazed at how much tonnage the CDN roads move per unit of horsepower.  A typical loaded CN grain train coming down the Thompson/Fraser lane will be 10,000' or more and have only 2-3 units, either in a 1+1 or a 1+1+1 configuration.  The equivalent train on Tehachapi will be ~7,000' with 9 units in a 4+3+2 config.  The latter is more fun to watch. ;)


Scottl

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4260
  • Respect: +559
Re: Kato ES44AC new schemes: CN and CP
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2014, 02:19:41 PM »
0
CN has the easiest grade over the western cordillera and is basically water grade from the continental divide, so it is no wonder the loco-tonnage loads are what they are.  The tonnage-power is so tight that I have seen trains stall on the slight grade east of Jasper with two units at the head.  They will split the train to get it all into the yard.  CP has a very different line with significant grades over four summits in the mountains. 

Quote
CN had orders for both ES44AC and SD70ACe's on the books, but canceled the order with Caterpillar and shifted the number ordered to the GE order. Knowing GE, this was likely a cost related issue... they got a sweet deal. I find it difficult to believe it was due to problems with the SD70M-2's, as they've been no worse than the GEVO's. And if reliability was a concern, those 144 second hand -8's are junk!

Then they bought the four demo SD70ACe's. WTF?  :facepalm:

I would like to think it was the middle finger to Cat for closing London down but I suspect that there was probably some advantage to the "Canadian content", perhaps through duties.

Did they really buy the ACe's?  It's like they want a locomotive menagerie :facepalm:

ljudice

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3223
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +189
    • NS/CR Camp Car Models
Re: Kato ES44AC new schemes: CN and CP
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2014, 02:50:33 PM »
0
Isn't CP in the middle of an order for like 500 ECO rebuilds from EMD?