ATSF 3460 Blue Goose Build

[Cajonpassfan]

For some reason I uploaded two of same and skipped this one. Explains how the axle assembly fits into the unmodified ConCor frame.
OttO K.

[mmagliaro]

Otto,
Cool.  Keep at it!   In the photo, you can really see what a dramatic difference those bigger drivers make
next to the old Con-Cor ones.   A big part of it is that the FVM drivers are closer to 84" on the tread with
very fine flanges, whereas the Con-Cor drivers have those big flanges.  So the 84" drivers look
a lot bigger than the Con-Cor "79" drivers, even though you wouldn't think that 5 scale inches would make that much
difference.

So... what's the real diameter of the Con-Cor drivers on the tread?  I don't remember, but I bet it's not really 79"

[UP4-8-8-4]

About time you got back into trains Jason !
Quit chasing Women -------------------- 

Ernie

[Cajonpassfan]

Thanks for the encouragement Max,
you of all people know how tedious and precise some of this work has to be. I ran into another issue.... the shrink tubing on the axle idea doesn't work as well as I had hoped, I'm not getting a solid enough connection between the axle and the drivers, the rubber is too wiggly and solid square drivers are the key to success here. So it's back to the drawing board, I need to find a better axle design, one that accommodates existing components and doesn't short out the frames. A .070" steel rod would fit nicely, but it's conductive...
As to the ConCor Hudson driver, it mic's at .47" or 75.2" whereas the FV driver is .522, about 83.5". No wonder the difference is so obvious.
To be continued, slowly... eventually I'd like to end up with something like this (see photo below).
Loooong way to go
Regards, Otto K.

[mmagliaro]

Wow.. only 75.2".  Yes, those Concor drivers are 4" undersized even for the NYC Hudson they are supposed
to depict.

Now, on your axle problem, you really lost me.  Aren't you just going to use the CC hollow axle center with the
gear on it... an you just need a short stub axle in the FVM wheels that will fit into it?

BTW... Perhaps this should be split off to its own thread.  It is really hijacking Jason's
project beyond even normal Railwire tendencies.

[superturbine]

Na, keep posting here.  Remember I plan on building a mech with the FVM wheel drivers.

[Cajonpassfan]

BTW... Perhaps this should be split off to its own thread.  It is really hijacking Jason's
project beyond even normal Railwire tendencies.

Yea, Max, I was thinking the same thing, and if it was anyone but Jason, who kindly keeps encouraging me to muck up his thread, I would have started a new one. Perhaps I'll just stay here with the driver conversion, and if I am successful with it, of which I am by no means certain, I'll start a new thread on the loco build. With Jason's permission of course. We may yet all decide this is too much trouble and the cut down GS is the way to go...

As to the axle challenge, I couldn't remove the short soft plastic stub axles from the CC wheels without damaging them, and the driver openings are not the same size anyway. The FV axle is a one piece steel rod which would short across the CC frame. I have another idea, when I have time and supplies (doesn't just drive you nuts to have to put a project on hold because you don't have a #50 drill bit?)

Thanks, Otto K.

[superturbine]

I certainly want to build the same ATSF Hudson as you Otto. I am glad that other are working in the same direction, your in the lead.    The real question is..... Do you mind me learning from your trial and error?

[Cajonpassfan]

Lol, no I don't, but the real question is do you have the patience to wait for my snails' pace project to get anywhere?
You'll probably finish a dozen engines before I do this one...well off to the shop...
Otto

[mmagliaro]

I am thinking a steel axle, but cut in the center and joined inside a plastic tube.  Styrene would probably work,
although Delrin or Lexan would probably be better.  You should be able to by some Delrin rod on eBay, and just
bore a hole through it to make the coupling.   This means reamout out space in the frame for it.

So... how do you plan to make the gearing work if you don't use the CC axles?

[Cajonpassfan]

Yes, .070" stub steel half axles inside a plastic tubing, drilled out to fit, with the CC axle gear, reamed out, glued to the tubing... And 3mm brass or stainless collars over the tubing, to fit inside the CC brass bearing blocks. And then there's the little detail of electrical connectivity of the brass bearing blocks to the wheel rims...I'm thinking conductive electrical paint on the back side of the plastic wheel...?
If this were HO, it'd be so easy...
Otto.

[mmagliaro]

Yes, .070" stub steel half axles inside a plastic tubing, drilled out to fit, with the CC axle gear, reamed out, glued to the tubing... And 3mm brass or stainless collars over the tubing, to fit inside the CC brass bearing blocks. And then there's the little detail of electrical connectivity of the brass bearing blocks to the wheel rims...I'm thinking conductive electrical paint on the back side of the plastic wheel...?
If this were HO, it'd be so easy...
Otto.

Yep... Nickel Print is what I use to fix up 1st gen Mikado drivers that don't conduct.  It works well.
It is about $15 for a small jar, not cheap.  And it is hard to work with.  It is very thick in the jar, and you really need
to take your time and stir stir stir STIR for a good 60 seconds before you apply it, or it won't conduct bupkis.  But
if you carefully follow those application steps,  it works great - way better than the cheap carbon-based conductive "glues"
or paints.

[Cajonpassfan]

Okay, progress (or lack thereof) report time.
In short, I need help: I need to find a piece of 1.8 mm ABS or Delrin rod material long enough to build three axles.

I spent a good bit of time, way too much, trying to make the multi-part axle idea work (as outlined in my previous post). The problem is too many pieces in too short a length of axle and my inability to make each wheelset a precise, solid, fully concentric and balanced assembly. The thing is just so small and it has to be perfect...beyond my skill level.

So instead of using steel halfaxles slid into the ConCor gear tube, I now have another idea: a full 1.8 mm plastic axle with brass collars to fit the the CC bushings. I do not want to use styrene for the axle, as I believe it is too soft and wouldn't last. Unfortunately, I have had a hell of a time trying to find ABS, Delrin, or other more robust rod in that size.... the closest was an outfit in China that has a 50 kilo shipping minimum...

Ideas, anyone? (2mm is too big for the wheel)
Thanks, Otto K.

[robert3985]

Otto,

Send me the spec's and I'll machine 'em for you.  I've already got the black Delrin and I'll even cut them to your exact length.  You'll need a hole bored in exactly the center, which will be easy for me and my old Atlas lathe, so let me know what i.d. that should be...or, I can drill a smaller pilot hole if you need to experiment with the hole dia. which will guide your bit so it'll be exactly centered.  I'll do several extras for you to fool around with.

Let me know about the brass collars too.

Publish the spec's here, so everybody interested in this thread'll know what you're thinkin' and maybe benefit from your design.

Not a complicated thing to do with proper tools. 

[draskouasshat]

 just thinking out loud here otto, but wouldn't it have been better to start with a chopped gs4  mechanism?  surely you wouldn't have had to mill down the flanges nearly as much to fit as you did to fit the CC  mech.  To me, it looks like the factory fvm  bearing blocks might even fit the Kato frame.  if not, you could always open up the Kato bearing blocks  to fit the fvm driver.