New Micro Trains Weathered Pack for August

[mu26aeh]

New weathered pack is now released, Golden West Service ACF 3 bay covered hoppers

http://www.blwnscale.com/mt-weathered.htm

[ljudice]

Very nicely done!!!!

[Dave V]

I'm really liking these.  Unfortunately, once the graffiti goes up, it's really not either of my eras, but wow!

[ednadolski]

Those look really good!  Is there anything that shows what the other side of each one looks like?

Now we can all throw away our paints, powders, and brushes, and save seven minutes of tedious labor per car (or more, for those who do not read MR).  And as an added bonus, your weathered cars look exactly like everyone elses      BTW: what would be the impact on the $32.49 list price, for MT to sell these with metal wheels?

Seriously, tho: they do look really good.

Ed

[Denver Road Doug]

And as an added bonus, your weathered cars look exactly like everyone elses   

Bit of a cheap shot, no?  It's based on a prototype car, so even if we did our own version, they would look very close with respect to what would likely be a printed decal of the graffiti, and some bit of weathering that would probably be the biggest difference.   Yes, a truly *weathered-only* car done by some of the heavy-hitters on this forum would probably look a notch or two more realistic than John Q. Modelrailroader but....really....there aren't that many here than can achieve that.   

And certainly any *unweathered* cars running around on any number of layouts "look like everyone else's".   I know, just trolling but I think MTL gets enough of that. (myself included)

I am splitting a set with Rossford Yard so hopefully we got our order in on time.

[ednadolski]

Bit of a cheap shot, no?

The only intentional dig on my part was the one about MR's seven-minute weathering.   IMHO they deserve every bit of flak that they get over that, since they are ostensibly in the business of promoting creativity, and here they are stifling creativity by dragging out a stopwatch (of all things!).  What's the rush... so people can spend more time buying more product?  .

As for "looking like everyone elses" cars -- well of course!  What else do you expect, when all there is to do is remove it from the box and put it on the rails.  That is pretty much the main idea of the factory-weathered cars, is it not?   If that's your cup of tea, then more power to you,  but it is hardy a "cheap shot" to call it for what it is.

even if we did our own version, they would look very close with respect to what would likely be a printed decal of the graffiti, and some bit of weathering that would probably be the biggest difference.

Even from the same proto, there would inevitably be differences that reflect the styles, skills, priorities, and personalities of the individuals.

I think what it ultimately comes down to is, whether one is more interested in the journey or the destination.  No doubt there some day will be 3D printers that can make a virtually-perfect scale "printout" of any proto that anyone could want (not just cars, but also locos, structures, figures, scenery, etc).  But long before we get to that point, many will be asking, "when did all the fun go out of this?"  Then we will have to figure out other things to do with our stopwatches.


Ed

[ljudice]

Best of all, era appropriate! 

I wish MTL would do the 60/70 era cars in weather/fading without the tags...

[EspeeGoldenState]

Awesome set, I could go for the HPJX and SSW cars, but the CRLE would have been relettered to SP or SSW or sold like the HPJX car.

Any one want half a set?

GVSR 527802 (Ex-SSW 73887)

The CRLE car is ex SSW too I believe.

Chris

[Rossford Yard]

The only intentional dig on my part was the one about MR's seven-minute weathering.   IMHO they deserve every bit of flak that they get over that, since they are ostensibly in the business of promoting creativity, and here they are stifling creativity by dragging out a stopwatch (of all things!).  What's the rush... so people can spend more time buying more product?  .

As for "looking like everyone elses" cars -- well of course!  What else do you expect, when all there is to do is remove it from the box and put it on the rails.  That is pretty much the main idea of the factory-weathered cars, is it not?   If that's your cup of tea, then more power to you,  but it is hardy a "cheap shot" to call it for what it is.


Even from the same proto, there would inevitably be differences that reflect the styles, skills, priorities, and personalities of the individuals.

I think what it ultimately comes down to is, whether one is more interested in the journey or the destination.  No doubt there some day will be 3D printers that can make a virtually-perfect scale "printout" of any proto that anyone could want (not just cars, but also locos, structures, figures, scenery, etc).  But long before we get to that point, many will be asking, "when did all the fun go out of this?"  Then we will have to figure out other things to do with our stopwatches.


Ed

Well, we certainly wish you well in your custom weathering, and agree we all have different preferences in modeling, but you still took an unwarranted and not too well thought out cheap shot. 

Not sure how MR and their (I presume) article on quick weathering plays in to this?  If you have 700 freight cars, there is a need for that!  Even if you decide to quickly do them, you can go back to detailed weathering as time permits, since most of us dislike shiny cars on layouts.  And lastly, anyone can go and add a few weathering touches to pre weathered cars just like un-weathered cars, if that distinction from others layouts (similar to adding a few details to make your structures different from stock ones, which I do)  Glad to have some creative marketing from MT for a much wanted product that I probably couldn't do as well myself, and also, would consider that such a low priority with all the other layout stuff I have to do, that in reality, it would never get done.

Where is MR or MT in the biz of promoting creativity?  Almost all mfgs have been making modeling easier since I was a kid starting MRR in about 1960. IMHO, if they hadn't the hobby wouldn't be nearly as big today, even if I do appreciate those old school kind that still like craftsmanship above all else.  MR promotes building layouts and growing the hobby, and I think you can find that in their mission statements.  They also appreciate old school guys, but can't cater to them, or their circulation would be half, or right down there with RMC levels.....

Is it bad that MT actually want to sell some cars many of us like?  And believe me, I do like them.  Almost all I buy these days, because I have enough, unless its a never before done prototype that is era specific.  In my 2005 era, probably 10% of cars are graffittied or repaints, and certainly much more look that way today.  I figure if MT puts out 70 of these, I should look pretty prototypical on my IHB, so that's a good thing.

Spending a few extra $$ for weathering makes loads of sense to me, and I would hate to have naysayers stop them from producing what I consider to be much needed models.  Not that you would.  I suspect their sales figures are very strong, and they will continue to put these out.

Short version, its all good, except this bee I have flying around my bonnet today......

[ednadolski]

Please explain how my remarks constitute a "an unwarranted and not too well thought out cheap shot".  As I've explained, I think the criticism of MR is well deserved.

Where is MR or MT in the biz of promoting creativity?

What precisely is *not* creative about building model trains and layouts?  To the degree that they have become lacking in creativity, that is precisely my point about promoting "fast results" at the expense of creativity. The long-dwindling page count of MR is not entirely attributable to the Internet or competing publications.

In the long term, I don't see how it is possible to sustain a publication (or an entire hobby, FTM) whose core value is creativity, while increasing deference to counter-creative notions.

Not sure how MR and their (I presume) article on quick weathering plays in to this?

Sounds like you didn't even read the article.

Part of the rub was that they deliberately made a point of timing the whole process with a stopwatch, as if weathering is a race where seconds matter.  I think this is a terrible disservice to readers because it is rooted in the underlying idea that weathering isn't worth taking the time to learn to do well.

The essential idea of factory-weathered models is an extension of this, as its purpose is to reduce model-building into an exercise of (a) buy model, (b) open box & put car on track, (c) repeat.

Glad to have some creative marketing from MT for a much wanted product that I probably couldn't do as well myself

How do you know that you can't do it yourself, if you never try?  Again, that is exactly my point about how modelers need to be *encouraged* to try, rather than getting drawn deeper into the 'fast and easy' and 'instant results' mindset.

Weathering isn't rocket science, nor is it reserved for "artists", nor for the self-proclaimed "experts" (as if publishing a magazine somehow automatically make one a good modeler).  Anyone can learn a few basic techniques, and the reward is in the satisfaction of seeing ones own results, and sharing them with others, and collaborating on new ideas and learning to improve.

While I do think that factory-weathered products can have a niche,  I also think they become a two-edged sword when we forget the reasons for wanting weathered cars in the first place.   The "I can't do it myself" or the "I need 700 cars" mindset puts us into a place where we risk selling ourselves short on our own abilities.


Ed

[Rossford Yard]

Ed,

In reverse order, how do you know I  haven't tried?   I have, and while I can do it, just find other things more enjoyable (or necessary) and appreciate the help from MT, especially in the graffiti, etc., which is what I would have a bit more trouble doing as well as they did it (based on past results, but yes, I think I would get better)

As to the MR article, or others like it, you could make the argument that making it seem easy might remove the fear factor that engulfs us all to some degree from ever even starting a weathering (or other) project. It's sort of like "jump in the water, the temp is fine!"

And, I could be wrong, but I have read MR for 50 years and it seems as if it has almost always been about making it easier, perhaps for reasons above.  Most of us truly admire the Malcom Furlow and John Allen's but are happy to get 50% of those results with Woodland Scenics and other products.  Again, for those who strive for more, more power to them, they inspire us all!

I will agree that the stopwatch approach may have been a bit over the top! (I will go back and read it tonight)  On the other hand, it seems to me (again, as a 50 year reader) that the same old articles appear over and over again.  At the very least, the stopwatch is a new technique that at least has us discussing the article for better or worse, and sometimes, in journalism, that is one of the key goals.

I can agree in general about your points about trying to keep the creativity alive, but think there is a market for those MT cars, and also that they comprise 1-4 cars per month, in a industry/scale that must offer literally dozens, if not hundreds of new cars/paint schemes/numbers each month.  So, they comprise <1-3% of the market every month, which doesn't sound like the cavalry is coming to shut down our creativity, if we choose to use it.

[Dave V]

My opinion, for whatever it may be worth, used to lie heavily on the "do everything yourself" end of the spectrum. As I've gotten older and busier, I've really begun to notice what things I enjoy more than others and what things I don't.  As a human I tend to enjoy that which I do well, and not enjoy as much that which I don't.  Sure, there's the challenge if getting better at the things I use to fear (for me, those were soldering and ballasting), but those things still remain low on my enjoyment scale.

My point is that if someone is budgeting his or her modeling time, he or she gets to decide what to spend that time on.  Although I love weathering, it took a lot of ruined cars to get me here...if someone else prefers to focus on other aspects of the hobby and let the manufacturer do the weathering, that's a legitimate call.  It does mean, as was pointed out, that his/her fleet is no longer unique, but that may also not be important to him/her.

I think I would rather see--for example--an N-Trak layout full of similar factory-weathered cars than I would the more common bright n' shiny strings of the same car.  It may not be "unique" in the sense that others wil have the same weathering job on their cars, but it will be more realistic.

I will always encourage modelers to try new things and to "roll their own," but recently I've begun to realize that time is too short to spend on the things you don't enjoy.  Just my two cents.

[Denver Road Doug]

I don't know anything about the article so I have no response to it.

I *will* say that I think people here often wear rose-colored glasses when "judging" others and their preferences about model railroading.   It's easy to accuse someone of "RTR Model Railroading" when in fact that may or may not constitute a significant amount of their modeling arsenal.

I stand to be proven wrong, but I *seriously* doubt that ANY of the guys that routinely churn out the magnificent ultra-realistic weathered freight cars have done it to 600 of them...hell I doubt even 100 of them.   Some may have done a more basic fade-job and subtle weathering "generic" car in the 200-300 range, but I doubt it.   A couple of possible exceptions come to mind that I wouldn't bet against, but the important term there is exceptions.    So yeah you can argue "who needs 600, 700, 800 freight cars" and that's legit but in Rossford Yard's case....his layout will support that many freight cars.   ColdRiver's will too.   Not even considering modulars that also could support that volume of cars, the fact is that not everyone that strives for something even marginally more than RTR is doing so in a small way.

So we have variables of time, talent, money, roster size, and "philosophy".    I *get* the lemming philosophy of the Railwire collective by picking and choosing the most awesome stuff and then putting it down as "the standard", but I also don't see a lot of examples of this in practice.     And, I don't expect to, because it's a standard that most of us cannot meet.   Suggesting that we can give Tom Mann  treatment to everything all the time just isn't feasible.

The MTL cars are fairly nicely done, and can be as much of a "filler" car as any stock freight car we buy. (and can almost always easily be resold at cost, give or take)   You look at it as being lazy and ruining the hobby.   We look at it as being prudent, as "moving the needle of completion" on a layout or roster a little bit, and making time for some other modeling project of the ilk that Railwire approves of.   

[Rossford Yard]

So, it takes about a week after the mods decide we need a separate products forum, for us to use a product announcement to consider some of the bigger picture hobby/modeling issues?  LOL.

[Denver Road Doug]

So, it takes about a week after the mods decide we need a separate products forum, for us to use a product announcement to consider some of the bigger picture hobby/modeling issues?  LOL.

Well, now that you brought that up, we can just change the subject to "Bad Ideas" and it will go for 200 pages!